The question was asked in another thread and the reply was never. While manufacturers will probably continue to push the envelope for publicity and bragging rights, I think the buying public might reach the limit sooner rather than “never”. The jaded motorcycle press has finally come to that conclusion regarding sportbikes and cars can’t be much more than a decade behind in terms of performance.

One of the better online motorcycle sites did a comparison test looking for the best sportbike and surprisingly didn’t pick the fastest one. They said things like:

the motor is at once intoxicating and terrifying
Things happen very fast on public roads when you're seeing all those numbers on that LCD readout. Ask yourself; do you need this much power for street riding? Why?
Mile after mile, it's clear this bike is very capable of going much faster than you are. This is intimidating, even to riders of (a professional) caliber
If the test were just evaluating what kind of rush a rider feels, the ___ would be a clear winner. But it's a test of what makes the best sportbike of 2006, and to be that, it has to do more than go around corners, stop and accelerate like an ICBM. It also has to have enough user-friendliness so that a wide spectrum of riders -- like our testers -- feel comfortable enjoying those performance advantages.
Compared to these other two bikes, the ___ is too much of a handful to invest our tester's money in. We'd rather get something we can dominate, rather than the other way around.
The ____ is an incredible motorcycle, but as-delivered it's just too hard to ride hard, if that makes sense. A sport motorcycle should be friendly and make the rider feel good about herself, like she's using what it has to offer to help her learn and grow as a rider. The ____ is designed for very seasoned experts to use every iota of skill they have to go faster than anybody else, and for most of us, that isn't what motorcycling is about.

I assume most of us here can identify with this type of thinking or we would have bought Z06 Corvettes instead of Porsches. When auto magazines comment on the 500hp Corvette being scary, can the limit of useable power that consumers are willing to pay for in a car that spends most of its life on public roads be far behind?

Alan

I am very much of this thinking, and it's gratifying that the motorcycle community has taken the lead in discussing the limited benefits of extreme performance on public roads. What I find most ironic is that we have increasing automotive high performance available to any customer at a time when our roads are in their worst repair, the drivers at their most untrained and distracted, and our traffic density increasing exponentially. I suppose it's fortuate that I have yet to see any of the plethora of AMG Mercedes above a crawl in traffic. What's far more disconcerting, and disappointing, are the Ferrari and Porsche drivers constantly on their cell phones. Talking on my cell phone while driving the Cayman is like adding water to old cognac!

Alan,

This is a thoughtful thread.

Until the laws of physics are changed, not to mention the highway traffic laws, I agree that other than bragging rights there is little utility in having over 500 HP on the street. A year ago I ran into a new Z06 owner in a local parking lot. He gave me a quick tour of his beautiful new car. I asked if he was going to track the car and he looked at me like I was from Mars. There is the satisfaction of knowing you can blow anything away when the traffic light turns green, except maybe that awesome sport bike, but if you don't track a Z06 then you are going to be driving at 5/10ths most of the time.

On the track, depending on the length of the straights, horsepower can be very useful. But here too, the organizing authorities are always looking for ways to keep the speeds and costs in check, so that competitive and safe racing is maintained.

For a small number, there is the Bonneville Salt Flats and the drag strip.

Porsche owners are generally interested in roads with turns and many may ascribe to the axiom that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

since I asked the question in the other thread..............

I'll start with a thoughtful comment from one of the columnists for Roundel (BMW CCA magazine) a couple of months ago with regards to the great increase in speeds at DEs (and I will add, the great discrepacies in speeds which is of a greater concern in my view) - 250hp is about the most that can realistically be used on the street in a safe manner and provide a challenging drive on the track that does not allow for speeds that can be devistating in case of an accident (like 120mph wouldn't be bad enough)

I have to agree in general, but I'd up the ante to about 300hp, not just with regards to the fact that I have the CS, but also going back to cars like the LT1 Vettes starting in 92 which I think brought real performance and fun back to cars that were generally affordable. It really hard to think about that 911SCs are sub 200hp cars isn't it?!

Yes, and I have also had the same "are you nuts" look when I've asked owners of "super cars" if they were going to take them to Road Atlanta for an Open Track day or DE. They are so scared of what they have, they can't enjoy the car to anywhere near it's potential..................... it's simply an ego trip.

Here in the US, we get caught up with the availiblity of cars that have evolved from the "need" for high speed autobahn driving which as we all know has no correlation to driving in the US, while at the same time the expance of wealth in the high end of world economics has provided many people (including most of us that have made an "investment" in a Porsche) more than enough money (or credit) to splurge to satisfy our egos whether it be a new Porsche, AMG, M, Vintage Hemi, art work, or 8000 sq ft vacation mountain "cabin" / beach "cottage".

I have found it intersting though, that some of the "must have" super cars, while having long waiting lists when they are announced, end up sitting at dealers after the first wave - Last summer, Jim Ellis Porsche here had 2 Carrera GTs that sat on thier floor for months, while a local Ford dealer had a GT sitting for a month or so on his lot (sitting outside by the way) over the summer. Same with the BMW Z8 a few years ago. Maybe the high end is reaching it's peak - and seeing some auction notes in a few magazine recently it seems that some of the vintage cars may be cooling off a little to - I guess we'll all see when we spend hours watching Barrett Jackson next month.

A thoughtful conversation post - thanks BiggerTwin!

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In2Esses

2006 CaymanS - Black/Black
2003 BMW 325it
2007 BMW 328i coupe

What motorcycle site are u refering to, and where is the article?

Motorcycle.com and the article is at: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompa...st/index.motml. It is a subscription site so you probably will only be able to read part of the article without joining.

Alan

I don't so much care about horsepower as useable acceleration. While I don't drag race at the stoplights and 0-60 times are not the end-all most magazines would have you think they are, I do find them to be a general guide. From my personal experience 0-60 in 5 seconds is acceptably fast for the street and 4 seconds with a chassis like the Cayman's would be about perfect for me. My C6 Corvette, while faster off the line than the Cayman S, didn't have the chassis to handle the power in a safe and enjoyable manner. The Nürburgring times with professional Porsche and Chevy drivers behind the wheels show that the less powerful Cayman S is every bit as fast as the more powerful Corvette.

Alan

I think once they realize that they can't keep bumping horsepower after a certain point we will see a switch in focus for car makers. They have to stop at some point because as some have already stated, the power won't be usable for everyday driving on public roads. I forsee auto makers focusing more R&D dollars on weight saving and suspension tweeks or other performance areas rather than more horse power. There may even be a more intense focus on safety soon with all the deaths you hear about with street racing. I have no idea when this might happen if at all, just my opinion on future possibilities...

Don't know how true this is, but I read recently on another site's Carrera GT subforum that out of the 1290 produced almost 200 of them have been wadded up already! Not a good sign. On another note, there was a guy at the autocross last Sunday in a new Merc SL63 with the twin turbo V12, I believe 615hp? He drove around the course 10 seconds slower than me, probably trying to keep from going off in the dirt.

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Scott
2006 Cayman S
2008 MINI S

Oh I don't know. I really enjoy driving high horsepower/tq cars, even on the street. I love the feeling when you get a clear road and can accelerate from 40-80 in the blink of an eye and feel yourself pulled back into the seat. It makes me smile. And just because you have a 600+hp amg, vette, porsche, etc.. doesn't mean you have to drive it unsafely to enjoy its potential. High HP cars also tend to make great midrange power as well. And they sure are fun to bring to the drag strip or track when the chance arrises.

That all said I enjoy my cayman on street and track every bit as much as I did my modded 996 turbo that made well over 500hp. more in someways, but less in others...and I have 600 sportbike vs a 1000 because it is better for me, more nimble, and I'm not nicky hayden.

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Atlas Gray Cayman S

Remember the processor speed war between Intel and AMD? All they were focused on was processor speed forgetting that it bottlenecks somewhere else, since they did not work on those areas.
Consumers started complaining that faster processor did not mean faster working PC...
My point? Well, the moment you go past 400-500HP and/or TQ on a 3000-4000LB car, keeping rubber on the road becomes a problem for most drivers (especially if they push it).
Just like with Intel/AMD, at some point car companies will be forced to stop focusing so much on HP/TQ and will start looking at how to help driver efficiently use what he/she has in his/her hands.

I always considered Viper to be one of those cars that is the end of the era of crazy power. To use 100% of what Viper got, you do have to be qualified, rookies will put that car into the wall right away. According to the dealer I bought my Magnum from, at least 5 out of over 50 Vipers he sold in his career did not make it home, they were crashed.
That sums it up for me.

Focus on power AND driveability is what make Porsche such a great car company.

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'07 Porsche Cayman S: de-snorked... more mods to come. '05 Dodge Magnum RT: catback, high-flow cats, custom intake, projector headlights, SC FlashPaq... and on and on.
Blog: leanstartups.com