I'm not sure how common my situation is, but here goes. I currently have a GT3 and am still sorting through my car situation. I just can't possibly find enough time to truly enjoy the GT3 on the track, its intended environment. So, I'm looking for a bit more of a street friendly car, and am on the fence b/t ordering a 997S and a CaymanS.


I don't need the rear seats. Ican afford the either car. . . the cost savings of the Cayman is nice but its not the driving factor; rather its purely the midengine layout. The 997S is a great road car w/o question, along with all the 911 allure and power, but not matter what you do to it, it'll never be a midengine car.


I think my big hangup is power. . . not sure if I can be happy inthe cayman after coming out of a GT3.


Thoughts?

I had the same dilemma. Here are some of my reasons for selecting the Cayman.


1. handling - As a prior owner of many 911,993TT, and M3, the Cayman will out handle them all! I came to this conclusion after test driving the 987S, 997, and 996 anniversary edition. The 911's are so rear weight bias it irritated me after driving the 987S. You have to be a great driver to extract good performance out of a 911. I remembered in my prior 911 you have to time your braking perfectly before going into a turn. Getting on the accelerator too early causes lots of understeer. My 993TT wasn't to bad with this because of the AWD.


2. Price - everything in life is price oriented or in this case price/performance ratio. If I was to pick a car price independent, it would be the 997S. The 3.8 engine is worth a lot. I wouldn't even consider the base 997, the Cayman's handling is better with only a slight difference in acceleration. Brakes on the base 997 are the same as the Cayman and they're red while the base 997 is not. I think the base 997 are for people who have to have a 997 and may not place a high priority on performance. I see it more like a GT car. Put on all the performance goodies, PASM, Xenon, 19' wheels, you are $5K off a 997S.


3.Mid-engine layout - I have never owned a mid-engine car. I love motorsports especially F1. All top forms of motorsports are mid-engined cars. I want a mid-engined car!


4.New caron the block - Since this car is new, if I didn't like the car I could trade it without taking a major hit in depreciation thought I seriously doubt I would. From what I experienced with the 987S this car should be the perfect car. A lot of people, especially the 987S crowd keep quoting the 0-60 times and 15 Hp is not that much, blah, blah, blah. What they are failing to see is the 200cc increase in displacement and the VarioCam Plus gives this engine much more driveability and elasticity. The Honda S2000 increase the displacement with no HP increase and it transformed the car. The most important advantage the add displacement brings is a broader torque curve.

Edited by - VicL on 10/20/2005 09:30:18 AM

After driving a GT3 I don't think you would fully enjoy a Cayman. The 997S would be a great street friendly car.......no, it may not be mid-engined but its not a 'slouch' in the handling dept by any means.......it is an awesome package.

Oops, I forgot you're coming from a GT3. Atlas Croc is right, I think you're better off with a 997S and from what I've been reading on other boards, a lot of GT3 owners appear to be doing the same move. Maybe that's why used GT3 are selling in the low 80's at Porsche dealers.

Jeff,


As a former owner of a GT3 street and 5 or 6 different GT3 Cup cars, which I raced, I feel that, unless you spend a lot of time on the track with the street GT3, you really can't use all the power anyway. I ordered a Cayman S because I feel that it is far more usable on the street, and will do the Drivers Ed thing preetty well also. I guess it just depends on your intended use.

Hi Jeff,


Welcome to the board. You might just have the best of all worlds with a RUF Cayman, with a3.8L engine transplant. That's a $40k proposition as of today.


I plan to buy an usedCayman, not the S as I will swap engine anyways. Drive it for a while, then go do the RUF thing. That may be the most cost-efective way to get a world-class mid-engine fun car.


CP

Edited by - CP on 10/20/2005 11:22:16 AM

That's sort of what I was thinking in terms of an 'upgrade path'. If I really need to take a hit off the go-fast crack pipe, there's always RUF with a 3.8L X51 waiting in the wings.


When I talked to Wayne at RUF in Dallas, he said you'd need the S to do the swap. The non-S is supposedly not up to the task of the extra juice of the 3.8L.

I had a 997 S for a while and have a Cayman S on order. For me, the 997 S just didn't add up to $90K when driving it. Sure, very nice. Drove it on the track at Watkins Glen and it was impressive, but not $90K impressive. I've never driven a Cayman, most of us haven't. My guess is that my $68K Cayman S is going to feel pretty darn good. And that's not a stripped car, it's got the options the 997 S had except not the power Adaptive seats. We will see. PLUS...it looks different on the road. Looking forward to it. -Pete

Frayed - What do you find lacking with the GT3 regarding its use on the street? If it's the low ride and hard suspension, how about changing over to some adjustable coilovers (adjustable firmness) and set it up with softer coil springs - ride height is adjustable too. Going with a street alignment (no neg. camber and a bit of toe-in) would make it more benign too...

I also went through the same thought process. Performance: If you don't track the car, then any discussionabout excess power and operating near the cornering limits is somewhat academic. The only time I ever felt even a slight twitch with my current 997 was in a hard rain on an oily road, and it was easily corrected. If you are want to overcome the rear-end bias of the 997 and cost is not an issue, then buy a 4S. That said, there isa 'feel' to a mid-engine car that is different from the decidedly rear-engined 911. I have owned a couple of mid-engine cars and that feel is (obviously) most apparent under hard cornering conditions, which is where most of us will use Porsche capaibilities on a regular basis.


Appearance: The 997S is the latest refinement of a very old line. Its looks are still great, but frankly we're all familiar with them, whereas the Cayman has a new look. And I don't know about you, but I've always felt kinda stupid with that unusable back seat on the 911. The Cayman has a practical look to it. Ahh-ha-ha, no, really.


Self-Image: The 911 is a Grand Touring car. Those extra pounds, inches and years of refinement mean that you can cruise in great style and comfort for extended periods and love every minute of it. You must think of it in the same way as you would a Mercedes. The Cayman is intended as a Sports Car, with a hint of slightly less refinement.

I presently drive a C6 Corvette and Audi S4. While the 997S may have slightly better 0-60 times off the line due to its rear weight bias, the Corvette feels much more powerful than the 997S in roll on accelerationwhile driving. While I liked the 997S, when pushed hard in the corners I could feel the weight shifting around out back and didn’t like the feeling nearly as much as my spirited drives in the 987 Boxster S. I find my Audi S4 more satisfying to drive than my Corvette and the Cayman S should have a little more power than the V8 Audi. I am going with the Cayman S because I think it will be more fun to drive even if it isn't as powerful as the Carrera S or C6 Corvette.



[/quote]


You can't really go wrong with either car and it all comes down to whether you want better power or better handling.[/quote]

Grant,


The GT3 is exactly what I bargained for; I'm not one of those buyers who bought it then thought, 'oh, shiat, this thing sucks on the street.' However, I've found that my trackday/steet ratio to be diminishing, and track less and less due to a demanding job and demanding family. I was hopeful of one 12 outings/year, but I'm down to 4-5.


It is loud, low, stiff. Stereo is terrible. Car is skittish in real world situations, especially if your tires have lost a pound or two. This is sorta crazy, but if steet tires fall off the 32/39 psi split, the car gets quite sketchy. This is the only car I've had that is *that* sensitive to tire pressure.


Further, I think due to the lowering of the car, it suffers from lack of 'path accuracy', meaning that many small corrections are often in order to keep the car along its intended path while cornering, even under normal driving. By comparison, the 997 chassis has near perfect path accuracy. Hard to explain, but here's a quote from Car and Driver on the 997S. I agree wholly:


'We never found a patch of road that gave us even a whiff of that 'Oh, %#$@!' feeling that precedes some type of midcorner correction or wheel sawing. Editor-at-large Pat Bedard calls this 'path accuracy.' At speed, how accurately can you place the car? With the 911, the answer is in fractions of an inch; with the Vette, it's in inches. This feeling likely is why the 911 went through the cones of our lane-change test 1.1 mph faster than the Vette. You can plant this car anywhere.'


Uber,


With respect to you 'Performance' comments above, I still require a car that is fun and capable on the track, even if I don't go as often.


As for the C4S, no way. I do not think the AWD setup from Porsche in any way makes up for the lump out back. In fact, I got rid of my C4S for a C2 b/c it was more nimble and fun. I don't think I'll ever to an AWD Porsche again.

That's why I conside my RUF BTR-2 best of all worlds:


C2 (RWD naturally) narrow body. 426 HP/438 tqx. 2,996# with full tank.


This car is fun, but a load to drive. If I bought a Cayman, it'll be in addition to my RUF, not replacement for...


CP

CP, as a sidenote, you'll like have to buy the S. RUF won't put the 3.8L in the non-S due to tranny issues and differences with the wiring harness/ECU compatiblity.


I talked with Wayne today on this topic.

Well,

An S it is. Thanks for the tips.

CP

If cost isn't an issue, go for the 997S every single time. A 911's the daddy, I loved mine and only hope the Cayman is up to the task of replacing my 996. The 997S is a serious bit of kit