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Cayman ComparisonsThis sub forum is for messages specifically about comparing the Cayman to other cars. For example how the Cayman compares to the 350Z or S2000 or SLK, etc.
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... I'm thinking the M3 is a market-changing car, that's all.
I wasn't trying to be defensive but rather I would just never compare a 2 seat sportscar with a car with 4 seats. They are two different animals designed for two different purposes. If I wanted a backseat, that is why you have another car to haul stuff. Different vehicles are built for different intentions.
Porsche does not sell anything yet meant to compete with the M3 or M5. You might say the M6 competes with the 997S but 997 owners might take exception to that as the M6 is too "luxury" oriented. In fact, I don't get the BMW vs Porsche comparisons in any way. BMW sticks a lot of electronic widgets into their cars. PAG won't even give you an aux-in. Luxuries are, well, luxuries. I view BMW and MB as competitors. When Porsche builds the Panamera, then comparisons make sense.
I cross shopped the Z06 and seriously considered it. It's funny how you say the C6 owners think a CS is a girls car. I thought the Boxster was supposed to be the chick car. OTH, I think many people would think a Z06 (not a C6) is probably the best car buy for the money in terms of performance sold. But no matter what, in the end, you still got a Chevy (for whatever that means, good or bad).
Z4M vs Cayman instead of CS? No, I think the Z4M compares to the CS. So what if the CS costs more Maybe that might be important if your on the edge of affordability but in a technical comparison, its not an issue.
I guess I don't see the new M3 is changing any markets. It's just another generation of that model. I guess I see it as a nice sports sedan for someone in the market for a fast car with real rear seats for hauling the family or whatever. It's competition would be AMG MB models and the Panamera when it comes out. But not something to cross shop between sportscars. Just my opinion.
I personally think the new M3 coupe is a huge disappointment from a performance standpoint. Perhaps this is why you can already find below MSRP discounts on them before they even arrive here.
For your $65K+ you get brakes that don't last more than a couple of laps, an engine no more impressive than what Audi put in the RS4 2+ years ago, too much weight, and a price that puts it squarely up against the GT-R. It's also $15K+ more than a Dinan flashed, KW3 equipped, Quiafe modded 335i that is every bit as capable as the M3. Yes, BMW learned from Porsche on the lack of LSD.
At least the M3 sedan offers 4 doors. And the Cayman and C6 offer different varieties of true sports car qualities. I'm not sure what the e92 M3 offers for the true performance enthusiast.
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
I certainly cross-shopped these models (and the M Coupe), and I know other people doing the exact same thing, ...
I think the other thing here is the difference is size of the models. We want a small, tiny car. The M3 is now over 180". 180" used to be the line between compacts and intermediates. Now more and more cars get bloat, bigger, longer, etc. 3 series isnt compact anymore. Even the Cayman, we think, is to long. I'd like to chop 2 feet off of it. So perhaps comparisons are also a matter of size and weight. A Cayman with Elise weight would be nice The smaller and lighter the better. Sedans, OTH, are meant to be for hauling 4 or more people in some kind of luxury (depending upon the price). Big difference.
The obvious reason why people compare the M3 to the CS is a lot of people have and will continue to cross shop the two. Especially those not interested in tracking their cars. The new M3's engine is very impressive but like always their brakes are an industry joke. I used to go through rotors every couple of events in my E46M, of course bmw replaced them for free so it wasn't that big of a deal. ;-) Back when the E46 came out a lot of us cross shopped it with the C2 and then it was a 10k-20k difference now same for the 997 but the 997S is substantially more. I would consider a997S but not a base. In the end I chose a mid engine layout and besides the Elise I traded in it's the only player in the range. When the GTR comes out I think a lot of people will be forgoing the M3. I know I'll drive those two and possible get one for my wife. As was mentioned above, dealers do not have the lists that they had for the E46. Maybe it's the economy, maybe it's the design, maybe it's the weight, maybe it's the GTR, what ever it is you can get ordered cars all day long at Msrp and I know people already getting discounts on the M, not a good sign.
Porsche does not sell anything yet meant to compete with the M3 or M5. You might say the M6 competes with the 997S but 997 owners might take exception to that as the M6 is too "luxury" oriented. In fact, I don't get the BMW vs Porsche comparisons in any way. BMW sticks a lot of electronic widgets into their cars. PAG won't even give you an aux-in. Luxuries are, well, luxuries. I view BMW and MB as competitors. When Porsche builds the Panamera, then comparisons make sense.
I cross shopped the Z06 and seriously considered it. It's funny how you say the C6 owners think a CS is a girls car. I thought the Boxster was supposed to be the chick car. OTH, I think many people would think a Z06 (not a C6) is probably the best car buy for the money in terms of performance sold. But no matter what, in the end, you still got a Chevy (for whatever that means, good or bad).
Z4M vs Cayman instead of CS? No, I think the Z4M compares to the CS. So what if the CS costs more Maybe that might be important if your on the edge of affordability but in a technical comparison, its not an issue.
The M6 and the 997? That would have never occurred to me. But somehow the M3 and CS aren't comparable? I think you're reaching...
The Corvette community, while vibrant and often technically astute, has some pretty weird, parochial, narrow-minded ideas that turn me off. The flag-waving aspect of it drives me nuts, But, yes, the CS is often dismissed as a girls's car, I suspect mostly by people that have never driven one, or need the macho bravado of the Corvette image. As a person with no brand loyalties, I judge every product on its merits. If Hyundai made a great sports car I'd consider it. But barring that , the CS struck me as the best sports car within $40K of my budget. The Z06 tempted me as a trade-up in the C6 range, but in the end it still has all of the issues that keep me from loving my current C6.
Your comment about affordability is a bit confusing. To a lot of people $10K is a lot of money, and it is 20% of the cost of a Cayman. The Z4M is a $50K car, not a $60K car. For a long stretch of my auto buying history that would have been the difference between paying cash and a loan. (I don't lease.) Cost is always an issue, otherwise why not compare the CS to the F430?
I personally think the new M3 coupe is a huge disappointment from a performance standpoint. Perhaps this is why you can already find below MSRP discounts on them before they even arrive here.
The M6 and the 997? That would have never occurred to me. But somehow the M3 and CS aren't comparable? I think you're reaching...
Both cars have back seats, however small. CS has no back seats, pure 2 seater. M6 and 997 are an obvious comparison to me, even pricewise.
M3 and CS are two totally different designs. M3 for hauling people. CS ... two's company, three is a crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueone
Your comment about affordability is a bit confusing. ... Cost is always an issue, otherwise why not compare the CS to the F430?
I'll clarify. Difference between 50K and 60K is small compared to the difference between 50K and 250K. It's huge. Add in insurance costs and huger. Ferrari prices are a whole other league.
In comparing $50K vice $60K, if it were me, I'd just wait and get the car I really wanted and not settle for something lesser. I know much of today's young society, or at least I have read, is in for instant gratification. Gotta have it right now. I'd rather wait a year or two or more than have the instant gratification. I'd wait until I can afford it rather than just settle for less. Therefore, to me, for a $10K difference, money would not be part of my decision making process. Otherwise, I'd kick myself over and over again for not getting what I really wanted. I know the concept of waiting might sound strange in today's instant gratification society but I just don't like the idea of settling when I know if I had patience, I wouldn't have to settle.
OTH, I think many people would think a Z06 (not a C6) is probably the best car buy for the money in terms of performance sold. But no matter what, in the end, you still got a Chevy (for whatever that means, good or bad).
Maybe that might be important if your on the edge of affordability but in a technical comparison, its not an issue.
