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Cayman ComparisonsThis sub forum is for messages specifically about comparing the Cayman to other cars. For example how the Cayman compares to the 350Z or S2000 or SLK, etc.
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So the question was brought up, "Is the 370Z competition for the Cayman"?
I say hell yes. Any lightweight (<3k lbs), rwd, 2 seat or 2+2 car offered with a manual is competition to the Cayman. It could cost $15k or $150k and they would compete. Now someone may have $150k budgeted for his next sportscar. Would he be foolish to overlook the S2k, Z4, CS, 911(yes, it is over 3k lbs), Elise or even Vette? The more likely scenario is that his budget is $15k and he will have far less choice.
I also agree that there is more than pure performance numbers (or we'd all be driving Z06s. You pay a little extra for exclusivity, free water at the dealer & the comforting feeling that comes with owning a precision device constructed in Deutschland.
Now would "I" buy a 370Z? Probably not, based purely on the fact that I do not like seeing my car on the road at every stoplight.
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2006 CS Cobalt Blue
2008 xB
2005 Tacoma
The first response to new Japanese competitor threads is always "it's ugly" shortly followed by "it's not German" or some variation of Brand X stinks.
350hp, 3000 lbs, proven platform, $35K...even if it needs a few mods to be track ready what street/track car doesn't?
Personally, I'm intrigued. If nothing else, more competition will force improvement by Porsche. Or else German cars will be relegated to the same place German performance motorcycles are...
No, that is not my first response to every new Japanese competitors, but it is in this case as it is in ref to the GTR. In addition I didn't say it's not German I said it's not a Porsche, because Porsche is presently a stronger brand when it comes to sports cars and has stronger appeal to me and many others.
Personally I would not jump to the conclusion that a VW is always a better car but I would give the benefit of the doubt to BMW and Merc.
I'm objective, I have owned, French, German, USA, and Japanese cars and appreciated them all for what they are and how they fit into my lifestyle at those times.
Personally, I don't think competition from Nissan will force anything from Porsche. If it was from a competitive brand maybe, but Nissan is not a competitive brand to Porsche.
I will state this again, some absolute gear heads for whom HP is a must may swap but I suspect many Porsche owners purchase due to the brand kudos (not necessarily those on this site) and switching to a Nissan will not even enter their minds.
Not to be ignorant, but your comments remind me of what executives at Cadillac were saying in the 70's and 80's. And then came the rebadged Cavalier errr Cimarron. It has taken them the better part of 2 decades to reclaim an part of their image, they are still fighting hard to reclaim the rest of it.
I know PAG not only cares, but will respond, based on public comments made by company representatives. They are on record multiple times in regards to the GT-R... They will respond in the Porsche way...continued evolution of existing models.
A great example but I have to say that this issue was not Cadillacs alone. All the US manufacturers took their market dominance for granted and turned out poorly engineered cars leaving the door wide open for the imports.
They are still playing catch up. The technology being offered in the US made cars today is still behind that of the imports in many cases, OHV engines, 4 speed gear boxes. Yes, they are loading up with touch screen and voice activated this and that but the basics aren't there in many cases.
I cannot see Porsche making the same mistakes.
I agree that Porsche will deal with the GTR issue but in their own time and own way. IMHO I cannot see them developing a car with Porsche Turbo like performance and selling it for $70,000. Neither will Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lambo and....
First, read the demographics in those reports on who buys p-cars. If you believed the target audience, do you think those people are going to buy a Nissan instead of a P-car? Second, really who cares? I mean this in the sense that those who fall into the p-car demographics will continue to buy P-cars regardless of what the competition comes up with.
Look at the profiles of p-car buyers. Elitists, Proud patrons, etc. (I'm not saying that anyone is going to like these categories), but much of it makes sense to me, for example, ownership is what matters.
If you believed the target audience, do you think those people are going to buy a Nissan instead of a P-car?
In other words, Porsche buyers are the ones who would buy a 350Z if it was made by Porsche and not buy a Cayman S if it was made by Nissan. It's all about the badge and not the car.
In other words, Porsche buyers are the ones who would buy a 350Z if it was made by Porsche and not buy a Cayman S if it was made by Nissan. It's all about the badge and not the car.
I think true to some (big) extent!
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"Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"
A good car will get you from point A to point B. A great car... will just get you into trouble!
In other words, Porsche buyers are the ones who would buy a 350Z if it was made by Porsche and not buy a Cayman S if it was made by Nissan. It's all about the badge and not the car.
Possibly, many Porsche's are sold to owners who are more interested in the badge than in the capabilities of the car.
What make the badge so attractive? It's the brand and all Porsche has done over the years, the position of the brand, what it stands for, the perceived quality of it's products and exclusivity.
I would say many buyers would buy the Z if it was built by Porsche to their exacting standards and quality. It isn't, I have taken time this lunch break and checked out the existing model Z car. It is gimmicky and the interior is full of stuff but lacks quality. By the way I also checked out a Corvette again just to maintain my objectivity, my opinion hasn't changed.
If the Cayman was built by Nissan to Porsche's quality then maybe more would buy it but the Nissan brand is not the powerhouse that Porsche is and some would not no matter how good the car. After all they build Sentras, Altimas and a bunch of other average cars.
If the Cayman built by Nissan was of Nissan quality then it would sell more than the Z because it isn't as ugly IMHO.
The reality is that these brands do not compete even if the Z car is competitive from a performance POV. As stated in an earlier post, they are aimed at different demo graphics and even though a small number of consumers may cross shop, the majority will not.
Possibly, many Porsche's are sold to owners who are more interested in the badge than in the capabilities of the car.
I would say many buyers would buy the Z if it was built by Porsche to their exacting standards and quality.
No, ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'm talking about the exact same 350Z and the exact same Cayman S --- same quality, same capabilities, same price. Just switch the badges. Porsche owner psychographics says a Porsche owner would buy a Porsche 350Z and pass up a Nissan Cayman S, just because it's a Porsche.
(If you want to talk about allowing for changes, then a Nissan Cayman S would have more than 295 HP, LSD, xenon headlights as a standard (not a $1090 optional) part of the car, keyless entry and ignition (even entry-level Nissans have this), a better navigation system, state-of-the-art electronics and stereo system, and dual-clutch transmission. And, it would be faster than a Porsche Turbo for half the price.)
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
No, ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'm talking about the exact same 350Z and the exact same Cayman S --- same quality, same capabilities, same price. Just switch the badges. Porsche owner psychographics says a Porsche owner would buy a Porsche 350Z and pass up a Nissan Cayman S, just because it's a Porsche.
I would agree. It should be obvious from those reports. Some buyers, a percentage of them, would ... not all of them. Don't imply that all of them will if you read the percentages.
No, ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'm talking about the exact same 350Z and the exact same Cayman S --- same quality, same capabilities, same price. Just switch the badges. Porsche owner psychographics says a Porsche owner would buy a Porsche 350Z and pass up a Nissan Cayman S, just because it's a Porsche.
(If you want to talk about allowing for changes, then a Nissan Cayman S would have more than 295 HP, LSD, xenon headlights as a standard (not a $1090 optional) part of the car, keyless entry and ignition (even entry-level Nissans have this), a better navigation system, state-of-the-art electronics and stereo system, and dual-clutch transmission. And, it would be faster than a Porsche Turbo for half the price.)
Yes Porsche psychographics are correct, the brand strength and customer loyalty would probably allow them to sell a Z. Some people would buy anything with a Porsche badge no doubt, but not for long.
Porsche has a reputation to maintain and a brand to protect so they would not build a car like the Z. If they did, they will sell but it would be the beginning of the end. They know it.
A Nissan Cayman S could have all the trinkets and trash added and would be built to Nissan standards, it would lack the poise and be heavy, because to offer all the stuff there would be massive compromises elsewhere. Therefore it would not and cannot be the car we know the CS to be.
If Nissan built the Cayman as it is without any compromise then they may be able to sell it for less but not the same price as the Z IMHO. It would be an expensive Nissan and look what happened to VW when they tried to move the brand too far up market.
Frankly, this discussion of brand strength keeps coming up in other post also.Being a marketer I find it difficult not to get drawn in as I know you cannot compare a Nissan product from a brand perspective to a Porsche. Building a brand the strength of Porsche takes a lot of time and $$$ and drive. Nissan and the like will not get there overnight if ever, it isn't what they exist for. They are volume manufacturers and will compromise heavily to meet a price point that fits the demo they are targeting.
If you like all the "stuff" wrapped up in a $35,000 package then buy a Nissan because to think that Porsche is going to start to package all that "stuff" into a Cayman for less is a pipe dream. They just don't need to do it.
If anyone is unhappy with the packaging of Porsche cars then vote with your $$$ that is the only thing that will effect Porsche.
Porsche isn't competing with Nissan etc. and surprise, surprise, they are competitive from a value perspective with their competition.
