Well, it was.... I was trying to be too subtle, I guess.... [img]/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/angel_smile.gif[/img]

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If we were to have a conversation it could last an hour, but I can't do that much typing.


I have a 330Ci that has been a fantastic car. It's performance on the street is all that I need to keep me off the hood of a police cruiser with handcuffs on.


Question? Do you realize how big this new coupe is going to be? It will be much easier to seat 4 if you have a need for that which I don't. This car is going to feel way bigger than a Cayman in everyday driving. You mentioned that this car is not usually cross-shopped with the Cayman and that's because the 335 is going to be even more of a GT than the Ci was. I think these are two very different cars. The Cayman is a much better feeling sports car with great performance, whether you will be able to appreciate that on the street is a question everyone has to consider.


Porsche has overpriced the Cayman. They sold out the car initially to the people that wanted to have a great alternative to the Boxster and to whom the price was not that big of an issue. Now they are waiting for the second wave of buyers who do have to give some consideration to value ( those worth less than a million $ )no matter how absurd it is to buy any car at this price. I think the second wave is not stepping up as fast as Porsche thought and they now have a few too many leftovers. You don't need to buy a 'used' Cayman to take $6000 off the price of the car, there are more than a few new cars on the lot for that price. I think you will be able to find a 2006 leftover in Dec. if you are willing to travel 500-1000 miles to buy it.



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I don't have a need for a backseat. It would be nice, but not a requirement. I'm single and have no kids, so when I go out, its just me and the girlfriend, or me and a buddy. Its a PLUS to have the backseat, but not a limiting factor by any means.


Also, SOME form of value takes place in my decision, too. I AM one of those 2nd wave of buyers that has to put some form of consideration on value. I would always cringe when I would hear that Porsche has the largest profit margin in the business. To me, that says people are paying more for the name Porsche than they are for the actual substance behind it (within reason, of course. Theyre still amazing vehicles).


I wouldnt pay MSRP for the Cayman S and I agree that Porsche overpriced it. If I were buying fully loaded vs fully loaded, we're talking a good 15k to 18 difference. But being that the 335i will sell fornear full MSRP for 3 to 6 months, and the navigation delay would mean I couldnt buy it now till December, I figure the Cayman S will continue to depreciate, and in 5 months it could depreciate down another 4-8K? At that point, if you can buy a Cayman S that is say 58k right now, you could get it for say 51k to 53k in 5-6 months? For one that is say 4-12 months old, and has say 1k to 8k miles on it ideally. It seems logical, especially with the 2007's coming out, and even more so if they give any sort of small HP bump to the 2007's. You guys know more than me though, so any feedback at all is appreciated.


I realize you can get 6k off the price of one right now. But what Im hoping is this:


A 2006 Cayman S with say 3 to 5 of the most common options (xenon, preferred package or preferred package plus?, Sport Chrono, and them what, maybe PCM?), you can get for MSRP for say 64k or sofull MSRP. But now, they are giving you 6000+ off right, so thats more like 58k. Well, in 6 months, Im guessing you can buy that same Cayman S used with under 5000 miles and say 3 to 9 months old, for 50k to 54k. maybe 51k to 53k? I figure, they will depreciate another 5-6k over the next 5-6 months, espcially with the 2007 Cayman S coming out, right?


So THEN, if in December 2006, I compare say a 47k 2007 BMW 335i twin turbo coupe that is brand new, to a 2006 Cayman S that is slightly used, say 3-9 months old, and say 1k to 8k miles on it, and I can get that for say 52k, we're only talking 5k more to get a Cayman S vs a 335i (granted, 2006 vs 2007, and say 5000 miles on the Cayman S). Still, seems like a better deal when factoring in the discounts and depreciation and all that, even when looking at 2006 vs 2007model year difference.


I want to get the difference to 5k, where as right now, its a 10k difference. But in 5 months, the 335i will just be coming out, somy price is still the same, but the Cayman S will have depreciated another 5-6k, right? So in 5-6 months from now, the comparison will be mucher closer (only 5k difference instead of 10k).


Does all this sound logical? Sound feasible? Do you think, in 5-6 months, in Dec. 2006/Jan 2007, I will be able to buy a used 2006 Cayman S with the most common 3-5 options, for 50k to 52k, with under say 8000 miles? The logic Im using above seems to point that this will work, but you guys know more than I do regarding Cayman, so I'd definitely like your take on it.


Thanks guys!
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Edited by - Tracer on 07/14/2006 12:49:26 PM

heh, this is scary to me too. I wonder if I would ruin any future experiences by going to Porsche. What if in a few years I need to go back, and I end up buying a BMW or Audi or Lexus or something. It might taint future car purchases because Im always trying to compare them to the Porsche I had. Where as without, I would think BMW at the top of the food chain, and be happy not knowing that while BMW is ahead of 80% of the other brands, its below that other 20% which includes Porsche?


I guess I'm going in thinking is very unlikely I will only buy Porsche's from here out, but then again, I guess most people go in thinking that too and once you buy your first one, you might well be hooked from them on. Hard to go back, I guess.
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Then this must qualify as 'Rough Sex'





The new GT3 RS which IS coming to the U.S. for a change!!!

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Jeff, It sounds like you are trying to find your comfort level on the rational --- emotional scale of car-buying decision making. Porsches tend to be on the emotional end of the spectrum with Ferraris even further to the right. BMWs tend to be closer to the rational end, simply because they are a Sport Sedan in their various guises. As YLW GATR points out within the Porsche segment one can now choose one's preferred position and if the low polar moment, mid-engined Cayman is Sweetnessthen the Carrera GT must be a banned fruit. Used Porsches will appeal to more rational people that want to sample the emotional experience that Porsche promises but without the first year depreciation cost. Purchasing a new Porsche requires thatoneallow the executive command center to let out the reinson impulse control, so to speak. For some, this is why a previously driven Porsche seems an acceptable compromise.

THANKS FOR THE GT PICS.....ITS BEAUTIFUL.....reminds me of the Miami Vice days


Tracer - GO FOR IT....

YLW GATR- Well, I guess with those pictures, you would 'rest your case' as it were, eh?



brad

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Jeff,


I think first you have to ask yourself. Do you need 4 seats? Do you want a real sportscar? Have you ever owned a Porsche before? I've had 3 series, and 5 series and 993s and now the Cayman S. They are all great cars. If you want a real sportscar there is no denying the Cayman is the only way to go between your 2 choice's. Also, I must add that if the pictures of the new 335 looks like what I saw then I could not buy that car. To me it looks like a 3 year old Camry.


Jeff

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Jeff
06 Basalt/Terr CS
07 BMW 530xi
07 BMW X3
08 Nissan altima 2.5s

Tracer,


You asked if the continued Cayman S depreciation will lead to the price point you would like to see. I am not sure anyone can predict the future so well. However, in a used car market, especially with Cayman's production numbers, you could potentially find some very motivated sellers if you are a little flexible (color, travel distance, mileage) yourself. It does not mean that every Cyman S on the market needs to be asking that price, you only need to find one willing seller. That is much more doable than getting the 3-series at a decent price.


Onto which car to get. I had BMWs since 1985 and am active on some BMW boards. Frankly, I am very leary ofa new BMWs now, especially a first MY sample. Starting with the 7 series, then the E605 series, 6 series, they have nothing but nagging electronics problems. That's the main reason why they rank so low in the reliability surveys. On the E60 M5 and M6 boards, the littiny of problems are staggering and very dicouraging. I love my M5 to death, but now I have sworn off BMWs, for a while at least. I see little reason to think that the new 3 series will be an exception here.


Back to Cayman S, I don't own one yet, so this strictly based on test drives and mag. reporting, but I suspect that the Cayman S is far superior in shifting (rubbery BMW gear boxes), road feel, cornering prowess, looks (purely subjective) and niggling problems (Poresche ranked #1 in relaibility in the recent surveys). If those are high on your priority list, then go for the Cayman S.


Good luck.


CP

Tracer,



Couple of things - I think you're being a little optimistic on some of your numbers. First, MSRP on a CS with the options you mention is going to be around $66k-67k, (add PCM and it's another almost $3k) and since there's about $8k or so profit over invoice on these cars, I don't think $6k off the MSRP is the norm right now - it might be at some places here and there, but not all over the place. I really think the $6k off MSRP talk is a little overblown. And, most, if not all of these deeply discounted cars are demos that have had the **** driven out of them by looky-loos.



Your range of $4k-8K depreciation over the next 6 months should realistically be on the low end of that scale - you might find a pristine example for the price you mention but, I wouldn't stake my life on it if I were you - I think there will be a fairly active market of the the 'slightly' used cars as they come up for sale, and you're probably going to have to go a long ways out of the Phoenix area for a deal.



In a nutshell, I think you're not going to be as close to your $5k difference as you might think. And, like the others have said, these cars are so different and you need to judge that difference for yourself to really choose. Do that before you do the math.



brad

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You know, maybe you're right. Also, it seems that most options are truly OPTIONS on this car, where as options on many other cars, you really need them. What do you REALLY need as an option on this car, just like say Sport Chrono for like 920.00, Xenon for 1090.00, Sport Shifter 765, Midnight Blue paint 825.00, Destination Charge, 795.00. Thats really the main ones you really need and want, right?


So that should be lets see, $63,295.00. If you get 8% off MSRP like some people were saying last month, thats like 5,063.00 off. So that's 58,231.00, right now, not including TTL.


You dont think this car, after its 6 months old and has 5000 miles on it and its 12/2006 so the new 2007's are coming out, you dont think you could get it for say 52k? 6000 less in 5 1/2 months from now?