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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 01:36 AM
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Tracer,


IMHO the Cayman S is worth $20 K more than the BMW so it wouldn't matter to me if it was $5k different or $10K different, I think you are focusing on the $$$ amounts a little too much in your analysis unless you have a $ cap and are just hoping that the Cayman will fall under it. In which case put off buying either car for another year and come back when the price is below your cap.


Ask yourself this, if both cars were Free which would you rather own? If the answer is the Cayman S, what does it matter if it costs more than the BMW? If you want the Cayman you pay the market price for it, regardless of what the BMW costs regardless of the price of tea in China. If you don't want the Cayman S then don't get it.


I'm not convinced you really want a Cayman S.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 01:42 AM
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 01:48 AM
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Well said, Kman S. I never even cross-shopped the BMW 3-seriesand I still wouldn't. Different cars for different needs. If you really want a Cayman, save your money and get one b/c there is no substitute. If you want a BMW version of a Cayman, get the Z4 M Coupe. The 335 ismeant fora different comparo.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 01:49 AM
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To me it would come down to driving both. I'm sure BMW will have a demo 335 here soon. I don't need to be the first to own a car and would like to drive things I'm considering buying before I buy them. Once you decide what you like, then you can see where pricing is on the one you decide on.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 01:59 AM
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Tracer, at this price I would want some more exclusivity. I live in the more densly populated Northeast. When I drive down the road on my commute I see a good deal of BMWs. While I can tell the 3s from the 7s and 5s from the 6s -- even have gotten good at noting the occasional M. Oh yes, I don't want to forget the X. In the end, they are all kind of the same. (Thanks Bangle). It's only the BMW guy who knows the difference between a 325 v. 330 v. 330i v. you get the idea. Now, Porsches are all kind of the same too (Cayenne excluded), but I ask you, how many do you see in a given day? Around here one or two a day. I still have only seen one other Cayman on the road besides mine in my area. Sure some people who don't know better may think my car is a Boxster or a Carrera depending on the angle they view it from, but they also all know it's just too cool. The Cayman is IMO the most exotic Porsche this side of the GT and the 959. I can only assume that you have driven the Cayman and been up close and personal with it. If it hasn't already got you by the balls, its' probably not your car. Good luck with your decision, you/we are lucky to be shopping for our 2nd or 3rd car in such a price range. I wouldn't sweat the $5 large. Lastly, I saw my dealer has gotten in a non-S Cayman. You may want to at least drive one before you dismiss it if you want to wring a nice sum out of the cost.....
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 04:00 AM
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<h2>Autocar First Drive: BMW 335i</h2>
<strong style="DISPLAY: block">Written by: Autocar staff[/b] London, UK&ndash;7/13/2006 <span id="intelliTXT">



<span id="nointelliTXT">
<div class="articlePhotoLeft">
<div class="photoCaption">


Who needs an M3? That question just got a little harder...
</div>
</div>
[/quote]

Heinz would need to seriously tinker with the recipe for its most coveted sauce to match the sense of catastrophic change emanating from the corner of a room somewhere at Innsbruck airport. It is there that a few people are walking around a display engine with numerous cutaway sections showing how cleverly its ancillaries have been packaged. Normally people just grunt something about this being just another engine and brush past the mechanical taxidermy. But this time people stop and stare as if they’ve just spotted a three-armed chimp in the ape enclosure.



Well, in a way they just have. The object in question is a 2979cc straight six motor. This is unsurprising given that the room is daubed with BMW logos, and BMW is to straight sixes what Heinz is to tomato-based condiments. But, like some parasitic fish that latches onto the side of a whale, lurking on the side of the crankcase is a second body mass. In fact, there are two of them. People poke at the exposed innards of these interlopers and say nothing. Then they look up at the sign above the engine that announces that it’s the “world’s first in-line six-cylinder gasoline engine with twin turbocharger technology”, their eyes glaze slightly and they resume poking duties like a bunch of inquisitive primates.



And this is entirely understandable. Porsche would need to adopt a W11 cylinder configuration for the next 911 to replicate the sense of tumultuous change created by BMW’s adoption of turbocharger technology for gasoline engines. That’s partly bound up in the legend of its straight sixes through linear power delivery, perpetually excellent mechanical refinement and appetite for crank speed. But it’s actually more to do with two decades of anti-turbo rhetoric emanating from, of all places, the BMW corporate mouthpiece. While no one at BMW has ever stated categorically that it will never resort to the exhaust-driven blower, they’ve certainly chuckled at other manufacturers’ attempts to match the performance of its normally aspirated sixes through turbocharging.

<span id="nointelliTXT">
<div class="articlePhotoRight">
<div class="photoCaption">


Relatively conservative, upright coupe body means the cabin is as roomy as the sedan’s
</div>
</div>
[/quote]

But here we are sitting in the new 335i. Running the risk of confusing the hell out of even the most ardent moniker geeks with its naming policy, BMW has decided to call this 3.0-liter twin-turbo coupe the 335i, hinting at a larger donkey out front. Yet for once they have a point, because the entire reason for this tangential engine development route was to create a motor that would provide the type of performance associated with a V8, but keep weight down to a minimum. But then, that has always been the basic science behind turbocharging.



This new engine is being showcased in the third E90 3-series body (although BMW is giving each its own designation; E90 is the saloon, E91 the Touring, this is E92 and it wouldn’t take Sherlock Holmes to guess that E93 might be a convertible). Globally the coupe accounts for just seven percent of 3-series sales.



Now, having recently lampooned any objective statements regarding styling by journalists, I have just a few observations to make about this new Three coupe. First, it’s another Chris Bangle shape incapable of doing itself justice on the page, and is therefore immeasurably sleeker in the raw. Second, the prominent swage that defines the car’s hip line and appears to fall away rather too dramatically before the trunk lid somehow doesn’t fall away too dramatically when you’re walking around the car. Third, the rear view makes the sedan appear fussy and ugly. But then that’s not saying much. And fourth, this third-generation 3-series coupe is the biggest departure yet from the sedan on which it is based. From most angles, it looks like a different model altogether.



It also sounds like a Focus ST when you press the starter button. Why a twin-turbo six should produce such a raspy parp from its tailpipes as the engine catches is a mystery. But at idle this is an unconvincing motor. Or rather, it’s an inexpensive-sounding motor. Equally, it must be said that this is possibly the only aspect of its performance that isn’t very, very impressive. Because, yes, with the nauseating predictability of a sudden return to form by the German soccer squad just as the World Cup gets under way, BMW has tried its hand at turbocharging and got it pretty much licked first time around. And by “first time around” I am, of course, talking about the modern era and therefore ignoring the 2002 Turbo and the hilarious 745i from the mid-1980s. We’ll discuss the finer points of its installation and performance in a moment, but there is just one observation that needs to be made first: you just don’t ever know it’s turbocharged.

<span id="nointelliTXT">
<div class="articlePhotoLeft">
<div class="photoCaption">


Decent comfort for two in the rear via individual bucket seats.
</div>
</div>
[/quote]

There is a reason for this. Compared with many turbocharged engines, this is a very light form of forced induction. From 2979cc it produces 302hp at 5800rpm, which sounds impressive until you realize that the new 330i manages 272hp without an octopus hanging off its exhaust manifold. No, BMW clearly identified everything from the turbocharging handbook that was anathema to its engineering values, and has developed this motor accordingly. Response and low emissions vetoed crazy outputs, and the results are more interesting than they are bluntly impressive.



Using two small turbines &ndash; one each for three cylinders &ndash; and piezo direct injectors placed between the valves for extremely accurate fuel delivery and therefore perfectly judged mixture and vaporization, BMW has managed to pull off the required confidence trick. Select fourth gear at 800rpm, open the throttle wide and it just pulls. No hesitation, nothing to indicate the presence of a turbocharger &ndash; just a small step in power at around 4000rpm, which is a variable valve phase and nothing to do with the turbo.



This is a very fast car. With 295lb ft of torque from 1300rpm all the way through to 5000rpm, it will chomp through dawdling traffic. And, in the BMW tradition, it still likes to rev to around 6500rpm if required, although it becomes a touch breathless over the last 200rpm.



None of this would be worthwhile if the claimed 154-lb weight saving over an equivalent V8 failed to help the chassis shine. Mostly, it does. There are only two reservations: the test car was running optional 18-inch rubber and the ride was unnecessarily harsh, and I can’t give you an accurate assessment of the car’s steering because ours was fitted with BMW’s infernal active rack. It is lifeless, arcade game stuff that doesn’t belong on a car whose chassis is otherwise so well developed.

<span id="nointelliTXT">
<div class="articlePhotoRight">
<div class="photoCaption">


Harsh ride and frustrating active steering apart, 335i is a dynamic masterclass.
</div>
</div>
[/quote]

The cleverest aspect of the 335i is the role that it will play in the 3-series range. With the previous model, there was a chasm between a loaded 330i and the M3 that often meant people chose the wrong car for their needs. This version bridges the gap perfectly by being far more the junior GT &ndash; poor ride notwithstanding. It also provides valuable breathing space for the forthcoming M3; now that the range has a discreet but devastatingly fast “normal” variant, it can allow some level of evil to be acted out on the M-car.



As ever, the upright body shape means the 3-series coupe offers all the practicality most owners will need. The trunk is two-golf bags big, the rear seats are now two individual buckets but large enough for all but the tallest, and in response to feedback from E46 coupe owners, the seatbelt now comes to meet you as the door closes.



It’s a very polished product, the 335i. In fact, fitted with the slick new six-speed auto and splattered with options, it would complement the lives of many prospective M3 owners far better than the car they’re currently waiting for. Think of it as that junior GT, and as extremely good value.[/quote]
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Tracer, If you search the forums, mpollard made a post referencing edmunds with expected depreciation. Here is an excerpt from the page. The link is Edmunds

Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total

$14,920 $6,229 $5,479 $4,856 $4,360 $35,844

This assumes a 67K purchase price and that you live near me I think these may be optimistic estimates. Edited by - smounic on 07/14/2006 6:45:03 PM Edited by - smounic on 07/14/2006 6:45:57 PM

Wow, 15k depreciation in first year. I wonder if that estimate is recent or not. Anyway, if so, then all my numbers that I was working backwards from all turn out as expected. That would have a 67k Cayman S down to 52k after 1 year. Thats worth it to me.


Thanksfor the post, Smounic!
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 06:50 AM
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<strong style="DISPLAY: block"><strong style="DISPLAY: block">


Good read btw MPollard, thanks!


By the way, here at the times, it runs neck and neck with the 2006 E46 M3.
[/b]


<strong style="DISPLAY: block">0-1000m for 2006 E46 M3: 24.2 seconds (manual)

0-1000m for 2007 E92 335i: 24.5 seconds (manual)[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">Still, every day I'm thinking more and more, Cayman S. I'm going to check out the Woodhouse Porsche site like K-Man S recommended and see what they have going on, but, I still think I'm not likely to pick it up until Nov/Dec, unless there is just a smoking deal going on.[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">[/b]<strong style="DISPLAY: block">Thanks for all the advice guys![/b]
[/quote][/b]

Edited by - Tracer on 07/15/2006 09:54:37 AM
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 03:48 PM
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YLW GATOR.....YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE MONEY! Im on a waiting list for the GT3 next year. My dealer has committed himself to making my next deal work even if the Cayman takes a dump...which I doubt will be a major one like the Boxster did. He's kept his word before and this is the type of people anyone should be dealing with when it comes Porsche.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 08:59 PM
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Nice article Mpollard. That is a very nice BMW, but for me there could never be the slightest chance of going back.



Russ
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 09:45 PM
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quote: 'I'm not convinced you really want a Cayman S.' <u>K-manS</u>


quote:'The 335 ismeant fora different comparo.' YLW GATR




Enough said, should drop this topic, as BMW 335 should be cross shop with an Audi S4, period! 335 cannot and shouldn't be compare or cross shop with OUR beloved car.
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