This is going to sound like a newbie question, and it is: 3rd DE weekend coming up, and I'm doing well in the "lower speed" sharp turns, but I think my weak point is having the experience/nerve coming out of the big straight (dragstrip) and hitting the first two turns, which are high speed, the second being scarier than the first due to its off camber angle.

I am happy to "lose it" a bit in other spots, but I think that pushing it to the limit and "losing it" will be a painful process in these first two high speed turns. I come out of the straight at 130, actually I slow to about 110 before I hit the first turn (chicken) and although I know the turn was "designed for 150+", it sure feels like a lot.

So, how does one get to the threshold on turns like this? Just start inching up in speed until I either a) freak out, or b) make an expensive/painful mistake?

I notice that cars I'm leaving in the turns gain on me in this spot, and I'm aware that the car is very capable (I love it), but I still want to keep it within reason.

OK, have at it you speed demons - you can't tell me you just go as fast as you possibly can into these turns and just deal with it when you get there!

I guess I'm too contemplative/analytic for that mentality. I'm guessing that "experience will teach you" is going to be a common response, and I agree.

I'm no speed demon, but gradually increasing speed through those turns until you're at your fear threshold sounds good to me. You can check your speed with a quick glance at the easy-to-read digital speedometer, and gradually increase your entry speed each lap. Also check your speed at some point you select after coming out. Fast corners where you can't see the apex and/or track out point when you turn in are usually approached this way too. If you're way off of speed, you might also try to ride with, or follow behind, someone with a car like yours who does that section faster. You may find that you're under speed by 5 or 10 mph.

Thirty years ago, I raced SCCA Showroom Stock for a while. I didn't have to worry about taking a 150 mph corner at 110 or 130 since my little car peaked out at 85. Nevertheless, there were corners that other drivers took at speeds I didn't have the stones to try. I understand how you feel.

Backing off when you feel uncomfortable is not going to cost you a professional championship and millions of dollars. On the other hand, getting in over your head could cost you your car. (I probably should say that it could also cost you your life but, if you are dead, you won't have to feel sorry about trashing the car.)

Your first priority is not to learn to drive faster. Instead, it is to quit worrying about how much faster you might go if only you were a better driver. A DE should be an opportunity to have fun at speeds higher than what is legal or sensible on public roads. Don't turn it into a self imposed pressure cooker.

According to your post, the next DE will be your third. If this were the SCCA, it would mean that you had completed two drivers' schools and were about to start your first regional race. The race stewards would be watching carefully to see if you could be trusted with a regional licence. You are still at the very beginning of your driving "career" and should expect the more experienced drivers to be faster.

Right now, you need to build technique. Pretend you have an accurate diagram of a corner. Draw a circular arc that goes from the outside of the track at the entrance to the outside of the track at the exit and touches the inside somewhere in between. The point where it touches the inside is called the "apex". The basic rule for driving a corner well is, "In slow, out fast." As you approach the corner, slow down more than is necessary to simply drive through it. Start turning in a little bit late so that you are on the outside of the circular arc prior to reaching the apex. Make your own apex a bit farther along in the corner than the apex of the circular arc. During the last half of the corner you will be inside the circular arc. Once you are turning, begin to get back on the throttle and gradually increase power until you have the pedal all the way down.

This racing line is called "late apex". It has several advantages. One is that you are always working up to the limit of the car's adhesion. If you get into trouble, just back off a little to regain control. The other advantage is that it gives you greater speed into the next straight. Once you master the technique, you will come out of corners as if you had been shot out of a cannon.

A racing incident I still treasure involved a driver who passed me on the inside as we braked for a corner. By the middle of the corner, I was on line at the apex and accelerating hard while he was fighting to stay on the track and still slowing down. I repassed him easily and left him far behind. He was a talented driver in a faster car and, once he learned how to drive, I could no longer keep up with him. But, on that day, in that corner, because I did it right, I blew his doors off.

You sound a lot like me. Here is what I find helpful. I rode with someone who drives a Cayman much better than I do. It cleared my head of the "the car can't possibly make that corner at that speed" thoughts. It also gave me a feel for how much harder the car could be pushed than I was pushing it.

I have to do that EVERY TIME I go to the track or I stop learning.

Next, I always do the "baby steps" thing. Pick the high speed corner and glance at your speed as you are exiting. Try going a little faster each time...as long as you have established a good line.

Are you really analytical? Get a TraqMate thing and savor the data. You will get a lot more bang for your buck when you can look at what you are doing, exactly when you are doing it.

Above all, have fun and be safe.

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2007 Speed Yellow Cayman GT 2.7 (retired)
2008 Guards Red Cayman GT 3.4
"Carpe Cayman"

Good advice from everyone... the best of which is that this is a DE, not the streets of Monaco... go at your own speed and gut - work on your technique, and not worry about watching other drivers or your speeedo - the better you get at technique, the faster you will go just automatically. Riding with someone in the same kind of car is a great idea - this person will be an instructor, so remember that their technique and experience are much deeper than yours, so don't automatically think you can go as fast as they're going. As you get faster, you'll also need to remember that you'll be arriving sooner at other parts of the track too, so you'll need to adjust your braking points as a result.

I'd also suggest you take the car to an autocross or two, if possible, where you can explore the limits of the car and what those limits feel like while in progress, in a much more safe environment.

brad

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21-year PCA Member
PCA DE Instructor

I'll tell you what Dan told me at my last DE ... Why are you looking at the speedo? Drive the car right, focus on technique, and speed will come. He told me that some instructors put tape over the speedo so that students don't pay attention to it. Worry about technique and your tach, and you'll be good. Btw, I just completed my 3rd DE.

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"The Cayman doesn't need any more toys." -- My wife

Thanks for your thoughts everybody. I like the comment about not making DE a self imposed "pressure cooker". Have to keep the whole thing in perspective.

There aren't any instructors with Caymans where I'm at. I can get an instructor to ride with me though. I had one mention to me once that one of the "problems" with a Cayman or Boxster is that they hold on so well "you don't know you've lost it until you've really lost it". PSM be damnned, I supposed (but her car was 20 years old, I don't think she had experience in either).

Maybe it is. But I must say that I really enjoyed this thread. Good question, good responses. But then again, I guess I'm a newbie too (like many other here).

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Gator Bite
(View My Articles : Blogs : Car : Profile)

Good responses all...

ndporsche, I always tell my students that I don't want them to go any faster than they feel comfortable, and that I'll never push them...speed comes with experience, and I'm certain that you've heard the time worn phrase, "...to go fast, first you must go slow..."

Your speed will increase with your experience, as a result of your getting more seat time, and as a result, your confidence (and ability) will increase...

This was only your third driver's school...I've been doing this since the late 80's and I know that I'm still not as fast as I could be...

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27 year PCA Member
Reformed Club Racer
PCA DE Instructor

One thing you didn't mention is your tires, what are they saying to you? You should be getting a lot of noise, screaming, from your tires way before you get to the point of losing it.
Skip Barber instructors always say a happy tire is a screaming tire. I would think you could keep creeping up the speed slowly and the tires will start to moan once you are really pushing the traction issue. Also your car should start to understeer if you are going too fast, ease off the gas the tires will grip again. DO NOT HIT THE BRAKES.
These are things an instructor should be working with you on. 2 DE events and you still have some learning to do, I would think its too soon to solo.

Kendahl
According to your post, the next DE will be your third. If this were the SCCA, it would mean that you had completed two drivers' schools and were about to start your first regional race. The race stewards would be watching carefully to see if you could be trusted with a regional licence.

I have a lot more DE experiance, advanced racing school and my regional SCCA Lic. , at 3 DE events he would get eaten up alive in a race. Going from DE where you only pass on straights with a point by to a race where you get passed anywhere including in fast corners with cars all around you is a bit un nerving, I know it really scared the hell put of me.

If you find that unnerving, your SCCA instructor left out a critical lesson -- mirrors. Situational awareness is critical in racing. When I was a DC region SCCA racing instructor, we always emphasized knowing what was going on around you (and pointing people by not pointing where you were going -- don't ask).

Now I will admit in the mixed practice when my Spitfire was passed by one of the AP cars (think TransAm), the speed differential was somewhat unnerving -- a little dot in the mirror became a big honking car mighty quick. But again, knowing what was going on around you was critical and kept the nerves under control.

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Robert