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I had a set of PSS9's on my 330ci and found them acceptable on the street but too soft for serious track work. My question is if the PSS9;s for the CS are stiff enough for track duty (60% track and 40% street) or should I seek something more racy? I know Moton's or the like are the cat's pyjama's but do I need to spend nearly 3 times as much or will the Bistein's do the job?
Also, what about the sport shocks that Bilstein offers as a replacement? I am running H&R springs at the moment and wonder if they would be a good match? Are they much stiffer than stock?
What other suspension systems are people running at the track with good results?
Regards,
Chris
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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener
If you get PSS9's they come with springs, you can't use the H&R springs with PSS9. Might I suggest that your 330ci was "too soft" for the track. I say that because PSS9's have a LOT of track miles on them among the Porsche community with favorable results. I think there are things you can do with the sway bars to stiffen up the suspension even more. As far as Motons go, the 996 Twin Turbo that I was out-hustling around the track in that video shown recently had Motons and I have the Bilstein PSS Damptronic setup. They experimented a lot with those Motons trying to get the best setup for the 996TT, my Bilstein's were almost perfect out of the gate, so I don't think spending 3x necessarily gets you a better suspension. The other question with an adjustable suspension is do you own your own alignment rack? Because if you are changing your suspension a lot for street and track you are going to become very familiar with one.
If your car is really doing 60% track and 40% street you should consider making it a dedicated track car and getting something else for the street because that means for every 4,000 miles you drive on the street you are driving 6,000 on the track and that's a lot of track miles....
BTW your Registry entry says you have zero miles on your car, if that's the case then 60% of zero is still zero so you don't need a track suspension. Might want to update your registry entry....
Thanks K-Man. I know that the PSS9's come with springs, like I said before, I've had a set, sold sets but have yet to try one on a cayman S.
My CS is a weekend/track/just feel like driving car. I own a Honda dealership and drive an Accord during the week so having a track car is opk with me. Comfort is not too much of an issue but performance is. I am running a 1:56 at Tremblant these days and would like to drop down into the 1:53 range to chase the faster GT3 guys. A switch to Pilot Cups (from RA1's), an LSD and a set of coil overs should help the cause, and alsways putting more track miles helps too.
Obvioulsy the driver makes a huge difference so just because the 996 TT had Motons and was not leavinbg you behind does not make the shocks bad or worse than the Bilstein's.
I leave my car set up (aligned) at track specks. No need to put it back and forth, I'm at the track at least ever second wekend.
P.S. I have 24,000km on the car as of now.
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener
I wasn't referencing the driver of the motons (who happens to be pretty good btw), but the fact that they kept having to set and reset and tweak them all weekend long it seemed, he had poor tire wear, swapped wheels and tires, etc. What I was referencing was that having motons is no guarantee of having a good suspension setup. Honda dealer? Hey can you check something for me. Is the Bluetooth add-on for the Odyssey out yet and will it retrofit to a 2005 model (first year of the new design)? Also got any extra body kits laying around? I think my wife's van needs one...
I wasn't referencing the driver of the motons (who happens to be pretty good btw), but the fact that they kept having to set and reset and tweak them all weekend long it seemed, he had poor tire wear, swapped wheels and tires, etc. What I was referencing was that having motons is no guarantee of having a good suspension setup. Honda dealer? Hey can you check something for me. Is the Bluetooth add-on for the Odyssey out yet and will it retrofit to a 2005 model (first year of the new design)? Also got any extra body kits laying around? I think my wife's van needs one...
Sounds like the guy with the motons needed a good shop to set up his suspension.
A person I know with a GT3 got his suspension setup all wrong at his local dealership even when he gave them a printout of the specs an independant shop had given him. When he went to the shop that does race setups for BMW's, they were able to get the car working the way it should be.
I would presume the PSS9's are better out of the box because they are generally made for street cars and hence take into account factory castor/camber settings.
Motons are designed for cars that will have pure track setups and so is more demanding to get right.
Just a guess on my part.
Personally I will be trying PSS9s when I get round to it.
Chris,
You probably know this, but I had it backwards at first. For trackuse on PSS9s the damping adjustment should be fully counterclockwise (out) and for street use they should be fully clockwise (in). This is the opposite of what my intuition told me, so I got it wrong at first.
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Charles (arcticsilver)
MotorSport VOS, Mantis sump extension, Quaife TBD, GT3 lower control arms, PSS9s, Tarett sway bars, Softronic race plenum, Capristo exhaust, Hayden TransSaver Plus OC-1676 on power steering return line.
Yes, PSS9s are too soft for track cars. If you street and track your car they're fine but if you're trying to catch GT3s you should get the motons or also look at JRZ clubs and Ohlins. The clubsport motons can be had for about $3500. You just need to decide if you want to spend a lot of time on set up and tuning as well as maintenance. For a dedicated track car it's a no brainer, it's seems like you track enough to make it worthwhile. The worst feeling is buying the cheaper thing then having to buy the other afterwards anyway. I did that on my M3 and won't make that mistake again. Just do it right from the start if that's your goal.
Thanks for the input gentlemen.
I have never tried or been in a car equiped with JIC's...are they pretty tough or will I have to rebuild them every year? Also, do they come as a kit or do I have to chose springs (and spring rates, of which i would have no idea) seperatly? Same money as Motons?
Ken, I'll check for your Blue tooth and get back to you. I can get a kit if you like and ship it to you...but I'm in Montreal. I'll PM you with some details tomorrow.
Chris
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'06 Cayman S -JIC Cross, Quaife, CCW C14 wheels,MPSC's, Milltek cat back, GT3 seats Schroth harnesses, TC design bar, Pagid yellows, GT3 cup brake ducts,de-snorked, vanilla air freshener
PSS9's too soft for track use?
I say that because PSS9's have a LOT of track miles on them among the Porsche community with favorable results. I think there are things you can do with the sway bars to stiffen up the suspension even more. As far as Motons go, the 996 Twin Turbo that I was out-hustling around the track in that video shown recently had Motons and I have the Bilstein PSS Damptronic setup. They experimented a lot with those Motons trying to get the best setup for the 996TT, my Bilstein's were almost perfect out of the gate, so I don't think spending 3x necessarily gets you a better suspension. The other question with an adjustable suspension is do you own your own alignment rack? Because if you are changing your suspension a lot for street and track you are going to become very familiar with one. 
Might want to update your registry entry.... 
