safty harness??

**PWPJR** · #1 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 01:38 AM

I have looked all around these forums and can't seem to find anything on a good saftey harness set up recomdation for the stock seats (adative sport seats in this case). I've seen some info on harness bars and seat change outs, but not much on the belts themselves. Can anyone please recomend a good combo? I will be tracking my new CS (first event in dec. @ Daytona) and would appreceate any advice on a set-up and/or supplier. Thank's in advance. Pat

**TX-KmanS** · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 02:11 AM

These might help you, there have been a couple of articles written by K-man S about harness bars. Take a look at these:

http://www.caymanclub.net/reviews/sh...oduct=32&cat=4
http://www.caymanclub.net/reviews/sh...ate=1161151595

Although they are installation articles, they do tell you where to get them as well as other information. Take a look at some of these threads as well;

TC Design Harness Bar question
http://www.caymanclub.net/cayman-ven...group-buy.html
harness bar

I hope this helps, and Welcome to the Club!

**beez** · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 02:35 AM

PCA has recently (in the last 8 months) changed their standards for harness systems at events they sanction. The new rules take effect on 01.01.08, but many PCA regions have instituted them already.

Here's what they have to say:

Harness Systems: If the participant chooses to install a 5 or 6 point driving harness ( four point systems are not safe and therefore not allowed) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include a antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM. Due to UV degradation and wear the harness webbing must be replaced every five years.

You can read the rest of the standards here: The Porsche Club of America

Basically what they're saying is that harness systems can't be used with stock seats any more, even with crossover belts between the two shoulder straps. You not might be running under PCA sanctioning, but their rules in regards to harnesses are good ones, imo.

brad

**afridi** · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 03:07 AM

That is how I have always understood it to be.

With stock seats the regular seat belts are safest. In event of a roll over the occupant and seat do allow enough movement to not have the roof hammer against a fixed locked head and neck which would be the case if one had harnesses.

With a fixed shell seat, you have to have a 5 or better still a 6 point saftey harness. But you would need at least a roll hoop or cage to keep the roof away in case of a roll over. But then you would need to remove airbags (because they are designed with regular seats and seat belts in mind. Plus many race seats are at different heights than stock seats).

The schroth harnesses are only aids for driving (holding you firm in the seat during hard cornering) and dont really increase saftey.

So I am of the opinion that it's best to keep it stock and if you go harnesses or seats you have to go all the way and include hoops/cages/seats/harnesses as a system, as mentioned above.

Joe_Tule · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 06:13 AM

I like the F-L installed roll bar that the fellow from NC posted a while back {Off to F-L it Goes}. While not a full cage, he said it allowed him to enter some events such as hill climbs.

I have been watching the seat developments very carefully and I hope that one of Porsche's updates for the next Caymen series includes seats like those used in the newer GT3 and GT2 that accommodate 5/6 point harnesses.

Those carbon fibre GT3 seats added by F-L are nice but I want the comfort and flexibility of Adaptive Sports Seats. Nothing like electric seat adjustments for fine tuning and changing positions while going down the road.

Finally, the Adaptive Sports Seats have "memory" settings AND, more importantly, side airbags. Now, I am really hoping to see a newly designed Adaptive Sports Seat that has all the electric adjustments AND the accomodations for 5/6 point harnesses AND keeps the side impact airbags.

One of my biggest gripes with F-L's GT3 carbon fibre buckets is that they have to disable the side impact bags because those air bags aren't in the carbon fiber GT3 seats. Sure, being lighter is fine, but I want comfort AND safety.

While the "memory" settings per key and driver are nice, I can live without that feature but certainly I want it all!

**glenn** · #6 (**permalink**) 11-15-2007, 11:47 AM

As Beez qouted....
You need to get a complete system. If you dont want to do that, I would buy a cg-lock.
http://www.caymanclub.net/cayman-ven...-discount.html

But as a green driver in your first DE, you will do fine with the factory setup alone. I didn't updgrade anything to my car until after my 3rd driving school. Then I bought another CaymanS just for the track.