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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Morefun View Post
Usually I just lurk here at CC but I couldn't help myself. This thread has made me chuckle..............

Only five track days this season and its already the end of April!
may is the time to ramp up a few good glen dates are available still and so are the summit point events with nnjr and schattenbaum both with less than 100 people

thats 10 days right there
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 04:03 PM
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I'll be at the Glen in the 26th and 27th............ Alex when are you going to be there?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by afridi View Post
I'm looking for a decent dual purpose car. I rather not have a posers Porsche doing the strut for the purpose of showing off to neighbours.
Instead of listening to what your idiot neighbors think, why not try hanging out at a track where EVERYONE agrees that a Cayman is one of the best track/street cars you can buy.

The irony here is that your concern indicates that you are a poser. Buy a GT3 RS and you will still be a poser. Buy a Super Leggera. You are still a poser if you don't actually drive the thing on the track.

Cars don't pose. People do.

The Cayman is more track car than you will ever be able to use.

You would know that if you were not a poser.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mooty View Post
. And PSM should not interfere with straight line braking at all. Unless you are talking about trail braking. If you are trail braking, you should have let off the brakes enough at turn in that the PSM should not engage.
I am used to driving my E30 with 205mm width RA-1's with no ABS. I am very good at knowing where the limit is under braking. I trail brake to the absolute limit. Sometimes I trail brake just a hair too much and get a little lock up of the inside front wheel as I transition into the turn. I was surprised to find that my Cayman (only 80 lbs heavier--but with wider RA-1's) would kick in the ABS at a decelleration rate that felt less than on my E30.

On Friday with new RA-1's (235 front and 275 rear) on Cayman S wheels, I was disappointed with what I perceived to be an ABS system that was responding before I felt I should be at the point of lock up. I had this feeling both in a straight line and as I trailed the brakes into the turn.

Then on Saturday I pulled one of the ABS wheels sensors and I felt as if I was able to achieve higher G's in decelleration and trail brake more effectively. However, I did not like the feeling of the brake pedal (there was a weird rough sensation as I first applied the brake pedal).

There may be several explanations for what I experienced: 1) Porsche perhaps uses G-force meters (decellerometer and lateral g-force meter), in part, to determine when to intervene with the ABS 2) I am not used to the bite of cross drilled rotors with Hawk HT-10 pads so I may have been overbraking initially. 3) I am not used to braking in a car with a light front end so... with my increased bite at brake initiation, my light front end and stock springs I may have been locking up before I got enough weight transfer to the front tires. 4) My RA-1's had less tread on Saturday and stopped better.

My plan for my next track event is to use my new G-Tech monitor RR in both my Cayman and my E30 325i. I will make numerous runs in each car. In the Cayman I will use PSM on, PSM off, just brake switch input to ABS off, then entire ABS harness removed. I will also try different brake techniques including the one Vic Elford describes in his book on 911 driving. I will download and compare g forces in braking zones and come up with some results. I hope.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007 View Post
Instead of listening to what your idiot neighbors think, why not try hanging out at a track where EVERYONE agrees that a Cayman is one of the best track/street cars you can buy.

The irony here is that your concern indicates that you are a poser. Buy a GT3 RS and you will still be a poser. Buy a Super Leggera. You are still a poser if you don't actually drive the thing on the track.

Cars don't pose. People do.

The Cayman is more track car than you will ever be able to use.


You would know that if you were not a poser.

"What not try hanging out at a track" - Actually I do. I am lined up for May, June and July as well as Sept and Oct. Been out already in April.

"The Cayman is more track car than you will ever be able to use." I agree with you . I cannot use this car. It sucks. Its all wishy washy, understeery. And I have no patience left with it. It feels like it will die with minimal hard use.


"You would know that if you were not a poser" Actually I believe I am a poser. I am driving a car I cannot possibly drive well.

All the people I know, who drive well that have driven my car just love it. I dont share their admiration of the car. It's a great street car. I love it on the street. Nice comfort, good feedback, ready to drive briskly. I hate it on the track. But I do plan to hang out more and give it a shot. If it doesnt work out I will gladly get rid of it and try something else.

Something old. And with less of the poser image.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Morefun View Post
I'll be at the Glen in the 26th and 27th............ Alex when are you going to be there?
I will be there monday and tuesday the 12th and 13th trying to stay for cup and saucers on the 14th and will be back last weekend of the month for the club race


Quote:
I was surprised to find that my Cayman (only 80 lbs heavier--but with wider RA-1's) would kick in the ABS at a decelleration rate that felt less than on my E30.
try a softer initial bite the progressivly harder till needed. I have found that the cayman S i have this year responds better to that. it also helps trailing into the corner for me
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:52 PM
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windshield tear-offs

Can you advise a source for windshield tear-offs. Would appreciate the lead.
Thanks
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 11:44 PM
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Re: ABS braking at the track.

I too was surprised how early ABS feedback started coming up through the pedal at the track. Much earlier than the threshold I was used to in my non-ABS 944S. However, I also figured out that you can keep pressing the pedal harder even after the ABS pulsing has started, and the car's rate of decel will continue to improve.

Once I figured this out, I got used to it, and I don't even notice the pedal pulsing anymore and I am definitely outbraking non-ABS, older, lighter 911's at the track. Without modifying my ABS system at all.

Brand-new unshaven RA1's may have contributed to your frustration.

Keep PSM off and just keep driving it. The brakes should work fine with RA1's at the track and you should be able to find the REAL threshold of grip.
-Q
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 12:17 PM
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Wow…. This thread is going everywhere.

Background: My first CaymanS was Jun07. After putting 200 track miles in green (novice) run groups on the car, I decided to order a second CaymanS without every option or custom leather. I decided to build a dedicated track car. My track CaymanS now has 6000 track miles on it in the past 8 months, I progressed in this car from the Blue group (intermediate) to now the White (most advanced) Run group.

First I can’t stand this myth – You cannot drive without PSM or ABS -
Most 986 Boxsters have no PSM, Cup cars have no ABS – Yes, lots of people cannot drive these cars. Maybe YOU are one of them. But I no longer have PSM in my track CaymanS and I can drive it pretty fast. But the car no longer drives like your stock Cayman. It drives more like a Cup car. But if you want to learn to actually drive a car to the limits, the PSM is an obstacle to learn total feel and advanced recovery.

Can you drive the CaymanS on the track successfully with no mods?
YES

Then why did I spend over $30K in mods?
Most of the money was NOT spent on performance mods.
$8K was driver safety and comfort – Built-in cool system, seats, harnesses, roll bar, harness bar.
$8K was on esthetics – Fikse FM-10 wheels, graphics, sound from the Tubi Exhaust

Lets talk about the rest of my track mods and why I did them.
#1 - I have a dedicated track Cayman S that I will drive 8K+ track miles per year.
#2 - I want to drive as fast as any White Run Group driver in a GT3.
#3 – I don’t enjoy being slower than a GT2
To meet my goals, I have to exit faster in the corners than anyone, because a 996, 997, GT3, GT2, Turbo can all accelerate faster than me in the straights.

I have enjoyed experimenting on my Cayman. But the truth is that not one of these mods was required to track the car. But, each of these mods was done to just get more out of the car than possible without these mods. With each mod I had the option change my driving techniques to reduce or eliminate the impact of the performance limitation. You have to do this with EVERY car. Even LMP2 Porsches have to be driven specifically to overcome some performance limitations.

Suspension mods and sticky tires - Both to increase lateral grip, to go faster in corners than a stock Cayman. – Totally unnecessary, unless you want to out corner a GT2/3.

997GT3 front and rear brakes – Totally unnecessary, unless you want to brake later than a GT2/3. But there are benefits of longer pad and rotor life, quicker braking, better heat dissipation and comments at the grid.

Power steering cooler and underdrive pulley – Maybe necessary if you drive lots of track miles in summer on high speed Rovals (like Texas World Speedway). But you can just modify your driving - short shift to keep the RPMs lower.

Sump extension – Unnecessary until you are an advanced driver AND pushing the car’s absolute cornering limits. If you are advanced, you can modify your driving. Just keep the left turns under 1 G. But the sump extension also has an advantage of more oil, which means somewhat lower oil temperatures.

MotorSport Oil Separator – Don’t do this unless you are getting excessive smoke, burning a quart of oil a day on the track, and/or engine bogging down in the corners. But its not necessary, you can modify your driving to take the corner in a higher gear. This also makes the problem go away. But it makes you a little slower at the corner exits.

Lightweight Flywheel – Totally unnecessary. But it’s a way to accelerate faster without modifying the engine.

LSD (not TBD) – Totally unnecessary. But if your goal is to match a GT3 then it becomes necessary to increase the braking limits and increase corner exit acceleration. (I am waiting for Guard to deliver.)

PSM removal –(I did this with a Yaw Sensor kill switch). This is also unnecessary. To compensate for the PSMs limitations, just brake slightly softer and a little sooner.

ABS removal – Totally unnecessary. I have no intention of doing this at this time. Tire are expensive. I compensate for early ABS by being careful of the pedal pressure. I also installed a proportioning valve on the rear circuit. ($150 for valve and custom lines) This has reduced the early onset of ABS in my situation.


The Cayman is really FAST and very reliable withOUT any mods. There is no reason to make any mods to this car. When you reach a car's limit (ANY CAR) you can accept it and just drive the darn thing, or you can tweak it. Its a personal choice.
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Motons; Eibachs; monoball suspension; solid bushings; GT3/Tarret swaybars; GT3 LCAs & trailing arms; Tarret toe links; 997GT3 Calipers & APR rotors; Tubi Exhaust; LW flywheel; Quaife TBD; MotorSport VOS; Heigo roll bar and Lots more.
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Last edited by glenn; 04-29-2008 at 09:32 PM.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 01:04 PM
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