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I have 19" wheels with OEM Potenza RE050As. Can I flip them side to side or turn them around on the same corner to get more life out of them? Tires have 5,500 miles on them, about 1,200 miles of track use spread over 7 days. Only about 600 hard miles as I am just a novice and 4 of the track days were wet/damp. I have 3 days coming up over the next 3 weeks and thought it might make sense to flip them is possible.
The RE050A is an asymmetric tire designed to run in a particular direction. If you swap from side to side, then you will be running them in the opposite direction from the direction for which they were designed and tested, and you will be boldly going where no man has gone before. It may be OK, but then again, it may not be so good. If you do, please be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Most directional tires can be reversed for dry use; the directionaly tread is for water evacuation to prevent hydroplaning. So, if it is going to be dry, reversing them is probably fine.
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97 Turbo | 06 Boxster S | 06 Cayman S (sold)
The RE050A does have an asymmetric tread pattern, but it remains in the same proper orientation when you just switch the wheel/tire from one side to the other.
I've never read anything that says that they are unidirectional, but if they were, you'd have to dismount them and flip them on the rims in order to move tires from one side to the other and retain the same water evacuation pattern.
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Last edited by Jim Michaels; 06-18-2008 at 03:21 AM.
I have the Bridgestones and swapped sides without problem. They are not unidirectional. I use one set just for the track. I don't see much more than 10 hard days out of a set, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference.
The RE050A is an asymmetric tire designed to run in a particular direction. If you swap from side to side, then you will be running them in the opposite direction from the direction for which they were designed and tested, and you will be boldly going where no man has gone before. It may be OK, but then again, it may not be so good. If you do, please be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. If moving from left side to right I would re-mount the tire so that the outside edge becomes the inside edge. Or remount on the same side and run them "backwards" if you will. Either way the idea being to get the outer edge moved to the inside.
I've done this with PS'2's to get a bit more life from them at the track, never had a problem or even noticed the difference apart from in my wallet bone.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. If moving from left side to right I would re-mount the tire so that the outside edge becomes the inside edge. Or remount on the same side and run them "backwards" if you will. Either way the idea being to get the outer edge moved to the inside.
Chris
Hmmm. swapping tires is tricky depending on how hard you drive. If you are tracking your car then here is what I've been told by experienced racers that I trust and also experienced myself.
Never swap front/rear tires (ok, so different size on Cayman so you're not going to be doing that but for example on my MX-5, they are the same size front/rear and this would be a no-no. Front/rear tires wear very differently so its not a good idea at all to swap them.
You can swap wheels left to right by removing the wheels and just putting the left wheel as is on the right and vice versa. You can only do this in the dry on most tires as most thread is designed to channel water one way and not the other. Doing this, you should still build up speed easily over 10 minutes or so to make sure everything is ok. Should be fine though. This is useful is you drive a lot of circuits where the corners are mostly in one direction and one side gets worn before the other. I rotate my two front tires often as otherwise my left tire's outside shoulder just wastes away in no time.
You should not switch the tires so that inside becomes outside and vice versa. I know its tempting, I've done it myself but its a bad move. Cornering hard eats away at the outside of the tires and they become diagonal over time. Camber also effect this. Tires also develop their best grip when they develop this diagonalness as the rubber touching the surface is longer than a straight edge. If you rotate tires inside/outside, you'll basically be riding peaks on the rubber so grip will be very much compromised. If you don't corner hard, you may never notice, but when driving hard, you basically have very reduced grip. Over time, the tire will grip again but by the time it does, you really need new tires anyway. I recommend you don't do this at all.
While I think of it, tires are best replaced as a set, you can replace only front two or only back two but never just the one if you are tracking your car hard. You can get away with it, but you need to be cautious. Also for example, if rear left tire has 4mm and you get a new right tires that has 8mm, the tire rotation is different as the diameter is different so it can cause the lsd to wear faster over time.
Instead think of it like this... your car is connected to the road by the 4 tires that your car rides on. You accelerate, brake and change direction through only those. Hence they are very important! Good tires are the best modification you can do on your car.
Another point is that different tires have different advantages/disadvantages to suit your needs. Some wear longer than others. Some grip better than others and some let go grip better than others. Use this time to learn more by trying out some other tires. My current favourite tire is the Bridgestone RE11. Not sure if they are available in the US yet or not.
Anyway, enjoy your track days and enjoy your Cayman!
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
[quote=tpodowd;273572]Hmmm. swapping tires is tricky depending on how hard you drive. If you are tracking your car then here is what I've been told by experienced racers that I trust and also experienced myself.
Never swap front/rear tires (ok, so different size on Cayman so you're not going to be doing that but for example on my MX-5, they are the same size front/rear and this would be a no-no. Front/rear tires wear very differently so its not a good idea at all to swap them.
You can swap wheels left to right by removing the wheels and just putting the left wheel as is on the right and vice versa. You can only do this in the dry on most tires as most thread is designed to channel water one way and not the other. Doing this, you should still build up speed easily over 10 minutes or so to make sure everything is ok. Should be fine though. This is useful is you drive a lot of circuits where the corners are mostly in one direction and one side gets worn before the other. I rotate my two front tires often as otherwise my left tire's outside shoulder just wastes away in no time.
You should not switch the tires so that inside becomes outside and vice versa. I know its tempting, I've done it myself but its a bad move. Cornering hard eats away at the outside of the tires and they become diagonal over time. Camber also effect this. Tires also develop their best grip when they develop this diagonalness as the rubber touching the surface is longer than a straight edge. If you rotate tires inside/outside, you'll basically be riding peaks on the rubber so grip will be very much compromised. If you don't corner hard, you may never notice, but when driving hard, you basically have very reduced grip. Over time, the tire will grip again but by the time it does, you really need new tires anyway. I recommend you don't do this at all.
While I think of it, tires are best replaced as a set, you can replace only front two or only back two but never just the one if you are tracking your car hard. You can get away with it, but you need to be cautious. Also for example, if rear left tire has 4mm and you get a new right tires that has 8mm, the tire rotation is different as the diameter is different so it can cause the lsd to wear faster over time.
Instead think of it like this... your car is connected to the road by the 4 tires that your car rides on. You accelerate, brake and change direction through only those. Hence they are very important! Good tires are the best modification you can do on your car.
Another point is that different tires have different advantages/disadvantages to suit your needs. Some wear longer than others. Some grip better than others and some let go grip better than others. Use this time to learn more by trying out some other tires. My current favourite tire is the Bridgestone RE11. Not sure if they are available in the US yet or not.
Anyway, enjoy your track days and enjoy your Cayman! [/QUOTE
Swapping front to back is not an option on the CS. I do it all the time on my M3 which has a nonstaggered setup. I rotate tires every 2-3 sessions and flip them on the rims after 3-4 track days. Never had a problem but I don't wait to do it until wear is severe. This is also with non directional R comp slicks (Hoosiers or G-forces) not directional or "sided" tires that arer marked "outside/inside" on the side wall.
On the CS I would switch L to R and flip on rims if using R comps. Not an option with the PS2's because they have Outside/Inside marked.
JMHO,
Tom
LSD - Limited Slip Differential
A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.
The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.
To see the installation of a LSD style unit Click Here -> Article Forthcoming Stay Tuned
Hmmm. swapping tires is tricky depending on how hard you drive. If you are tracking your car then here is what I've been told by experienced racers that I trust and also experienced myself.
Never swap front/rear tires (ok, so different size on Cayman so you're not going to be doing that but for example on my MX-5, they are the same size front/rear and this would be a no-no. Front/rear tires wear very differently so its not a good idea at all to swap them.
You can swap wheels left to right by removing the wheels and just putting the left wheel as is on the right and vice versa. You can only do this in the dry on most tires as most thread is designed to channel water one way and not the other. Doing this, you should still build up speed easily over 10 minutes or so to make sure everything is ok. Should be fine though. This is useful is you drive a lot of circuits where the corners are mostly in one direction and one side gets worn before the other. I rotate my two front tires often as otherwise my left tire's outside shoulder just wastes away in no time.
You should not switch the tires so that inside becomes outside and vice versa. I know its tempting, I've done it myself but its a bad move. Cornering hard eats away at the outside of the tires and they become diagonal over time. Camber also effect this. Tires also develop their best grip when they develop this diagonalness as the rubber touching the surface is longer than a straight edge. If you rotate tires inside/outside, you'll basically be riding peaks on the rubber so grip will be very much compromised. If you don't corner hard, you may never notice, but when driving hard, you basically have very reduced grip. Over time, the tire will grip again but by the time it does, you really need new tires anyway. I recommend you don't do this at all.
While I think of it, tires are best replaced as a set, you can replace only front two or only back two but never just the one if you are tracking your car hard. You can get away with it, but you need to be cautious. Also for example, if rear left tire has 4mm and you get a new right tires that has 8mm, the tire rotation is different as the diameter is different so it can cause the lsd to wear faster over time.
Instead think of it like this... your car is connected to the road by the 4 tires that your car rides on. You accelerate, brake and change direction through only those. Hence they are very important! Good tires are the best modification you can do on your car.
Another point is that different tires have different advantages/disadvantages to suit your needs. Some wear longer than others. Some grip better than others and some let go grip better than others. Use this time to learn more by trying out some other tires. My current favourite tire is the Bridgestone RE11. Not sure if they are available in the US yet or not.
Anyway, enjoy your track days and enjoy your Cayman!
I have a track day next week. I'll leave my tires as they are and ask the instructors to check my tires and get their opinion on how much life is left in them. And about possibly swapping them side to side (left side wearing more than right) or re-mounting them left to right to try to get even wear and see what they say. After next weeks day at Calabogie I have 4 more DE days by mid-July (that will be 12 days total on street tires). Pretty sure before those last two
