Frank Russell vs PDE

fraser · #1 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 11:58 AM

There are lots of 'race driving' and high performance driving schools, but only a couple let you drive your own car or a car like the one you own. For me, I'd like to either take my Cayman to the Frank Russell outfit and/or do the Porsche Driving Experience. Has anyone done either/both? Comparisons/contrasts? I know there are folks who will say do neither, just autocross, and others who will say, hey do both, but I am actually interested in whether there are substantive differences between the two.

sjagota · #2 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 12:37 PM

Hi Fraser,

Have a look at the thread http://www.caymanclub.net/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=2039as the PDE dayhas beendiscussed thoroughly there aswell as other areas on the forum and it may be of some help.

**beez** · #3 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 06:59 PM

fraser,

I believe it is the Jim Russell school, if you're thinking of the one at Sears Point (nee Infinion). I've done both the two-day PDE at Sebring and the PDE masters class at the Barber track in Alabama, and have also attended the grand prix course at the Bob Bondurant school, the best of the three racing schools I've attended. There are some similarities and many differences.

PDE does not bill itself as a 'racing' school, but an experience in driving a Porsche (used to be Carreras only, but I've heard they're adding Caymans) on a race track under a controlled situation. Most of the time, you're in a 'follow the leader' situation with a small group of drivers following the instructor. The students take turns being the first in line to directly follow the leader. There's also some classroom time on the first day to teach you about car dynamics, weight transfer, turn-in and turn out, hitting the apex of a turn, explaining late apexing, and why all this is important in driving a car fast on a track. You'll also do some exercises like a high speed lane change, a skidpad - usually wet, and a threshold braking exercise to familiarize you with some high performance driving techniques. They will also teach you to heel-and-toe-downshift. What you'll learn is how to handle a car like yours approaching the limit, working up to it at your own speed. The masters class (you have to take the two-day as a prerequisite) concentrates more on lapping the course, and expanding your limits. They may have changed this, but the only time you're lapping the course on your own is in the afternoon sessions of the second day of the masters course. The instructors are very good, friendly, and it's about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

The racing schools are much the same, but there's more classroom time, and you're in a different kind of car from you're own, and the aim of the class is to make you a racer. They're more aggressive about your progress, the other members of the class can be very aggressive also, but the instructors keep it safe. It's a different kind of experience, but in many ways the same. You will learn to drive a car at the limit, then you must apply what you've learned to your own car.

I would also recommend that you try some of the local autocrosses put on by the PCA regions around the Bay Area. The instructors are good, and you'll learn car control in a very safe (for you and the car) venue, all of which I think will greatly enhance your experience should you spring for the big money to attend either PDE or a racing school.

brad

fraser · #4 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 09:05 PM

excellent comments all. Thanks! I agree--will start with PCA events and move on from there. fun!

**beez** · #5 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 09:41 PM

fraser,

Every auctocross scheduled by the Bay Area regions of PCA offer instruction. Show up and tell someone with a name tag that you're new and would like some instruction, and they'll hook you up with someone. sometimes there can be up to 10 or so people wanting an instructor, so it can take a while to sort it out... be patient.

Go to the PCA Golden Gate Region's Web site (http://www.pca-ggr.org/) and click on 'autocross' and there should be a complete schedule of what's on tap for the year. there's also directions to the various venues, and some text explaining what a day at an autocross is like, and what equipment is required. They usually list the 'zone 7' auctocrosses that are hosted by some of the other N. Calif. regions, as well. You also might want to sign up for the Zone 7 two-day autocross school which is in July - at Candlestick park -it's two days of fun and hard driving for pretty cheap. You'll wear a lot of rubber off your tires, too.

Despite recently moving to Las Vegas, I'll be up there in my new Cayman (should be arriving by transport from the Bay Area this Friday) for the next GGR autocross in Alameda on April 22, and will probably run most of the season-long series. I'm also an instructor, and will probably instruct that day, and will also instruct at the Zone 7 school in July.

Good Luck, have fun,

brad

**hvdcman** · #6 (**permalink**) 03-22-2006, 10:06 PM

I was looking forward to using the PDE as well. However, as I read the PCA Zone 8 requirements, it stated that you need either 4PCA Autocrosses or 2 day driving school & 2 PCAAutocrosses. Now I am looking to attending some events toget my feet wet at. Hopefully will be able to do Autocross Novice and will be looking for instructors ASAP......... Some ppl I know think I'm crazy for wanting to AutoX the car but then isn't that what it's designedfor????? LOL

**beez** · #7 (**permalink**) 03-22-2006, 10:51 PM

Chuck,

You might be confusing Zone 8 PCA driving events called DEs (standard PCA lingo for for Driver's Education, which is taking YOUR car out on a track) and PDE - Porsche Driving Experience (www.porschedriving.com.) in which you pay a bunch of money to drive one of THEIR (Porsche Cars North America) cars around the very nice track outside of Birmingham Alabama.

As far as I know, the only prerequisite to attend PDE in Alabama is the time and $$$ to take the classes and travel there. The different PCA zones (I'm now in Zone 8 now that I've moved from Palo Alto to Las Vegas) can have different rules regarding driving in a DE. In Zone 7 where I'm from, there was no autocross experience required, but there was an all-day ground school one needed to attend before doing a race track DE with the club.

As I said above, if you learn to autocross your car pretty well, you'll be ahead of the game if you want to attend a driving school such as PDE, and most PCA (not sure how Zone 8 runs things yet) autocross events have instructors in attendance.

And yes, this is exactly what the cars were made to do... so go do it...

brad

**hvdcman** · #8 (**permalink**) 03-23-2006, 03:39 AM

Thanx Brad for the info....Am looking at doing a Driving School as well but will have to wait a little while as am going to take son along so he can get the experience as well.....never can have tooo much track experience..... Hopefully will see you at Z8 event in the near future....only 3hrs out from Las Vegas..... and love to trip over to dine at Hugo's Cellar........ Getting kinda hungry typing this out.... LOL

**jim@tirerack** · #9 (**permalink**) 02-07-2007, 03:12 PM

I have done numerous schools and I will say that the Porsche Driving Experience is a very good school and first class all the way. The track is beautiful and you will be in 997 and Boxsters for the training and autocross.
Even though it is a lead folow on the track I found they will go as fast as they think you can go. The group I was with was the fastest and the other groups would pull over and let us by.
We did wet skid pads and autocross as well as heel to shifting exercises. We were on the track for most of the two days.
I will say it was the first time for me driving a Porsche but owning one doesn't mean you can drive one. All of the other people in the class owned Porsche but didn't seem to really want to drive the cars hard.