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Cayman CompetitionAuto Cross, Club Racing, DE, this is the place to discuss the Cayman on the track
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Hi Guys, going to my first DE with a friend. I am new to manual transmissions, and shifting, with about 4000 miles experience so far.
So here is my situation. I a trying to learn heel-toe and have read a lot, see many videos and read all the stuff on here.
While everyone talks about how to heel-toe and rev-match, no one has mentioned any other way to do this. I am a beginner and will have to learn how to do this, but in the mean time, while I am, how do I down shift on the track without these methods?
Detailed answers would be appreciated.
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The easiest work-around is to complete your braking well before the corner starts, leaving time to downshift before the corner begins. If you're going to upset the car a bit by not perfectly rev-matching, then make sure that you do this before the corner begins. So, the sequence would be:
1. See corner coming.
2. Brake to a speed that will allow you to handle the corner.
3. Stop braking.
4. Downshift. Now you can blip the throttle with your right foot if you want to, since you're done braking. If the car is upset a bit by imperfect rev-matching, then it's OK since you're still traveling in a straight line.
5. Add a touch of power to balance the car around the corner.
6. Turn in to the corner.
This will be slower than the heel-toe deal, but will be safe. Have fun!
I'm pretty much a rookie with heel-toe work too so I'll try my 2-cents. I've had 7 DE days spread over 3 years with only 2 of them in my Cayman S.
There are a lot of things happening the first time on the track and you may have sensory overload. You don't want to be learning heel-toe under these conditions! Don't worry about heel-toe, no one expects you to be a expert driver the first time out.
The first few sessions on the track your instructor may tell you to leave the car in one gear and drive the line smoothly. This depends on the track. I know my first time out ever at Lime Rock Park I was able to leave my A4 in 3rd gear most of the time. Good communication is the key, let the instructor know about your shifting concerns when they get in the car and he/she will help you!
Now as your speeds pick up, you may be braking harder and deeper going into certain turns. With the slow entry speeds, you'll need to downshift to climb out of the turn without bogging.
The time to downshift will be BEFORE the turn while the car is straight and balanced. How do you downshift on the street? Are you smooth and give it some gas to bring the revs up a bit before letting the clutch out? If so, do the same thing but just give it a bit more gas to rev the engine up since you'll probably be going much faster than what you would engage the lower gear at on the street.
I started to attempt heel-toe after 3rd day at DE but only at certain turns where I had time to setup and some room to runoff in case I flubbed it. But before doing it, I would tell my instructor exactly what I was planning to do so he/she won't be surprised at any possible uneven braking when I blip.
Part of the fun at DE's is learning new things so just take it easy the first time out!
Post back here after your event with a report of how things went.
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Pete
2008 Meteor Grey CS, PASM, Chrono, Sport Seats, Sport Shifter, Sport steering wheel, Xenon, Fire Extinguisher, Auto Climate and clear bra!
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Last edited by PistolPete13; 07-15-2008 at 04:36 PM.
I've been in 4 DEs and I still can't heel-toe downshift. The track I drive doesn't require much shifting. Normally when I down shift from 4th to 3rd, I just smoothly apply the brakes in a straight line and downshift to 3rd and slowly let out the clutch. 3rd to 2nd is the same except I watch my speed and slowly let out the clutch around 45 - 50 MPH.
Just relax and listen to your instructor, you will have a great time.
FC- I just had my first DE in 30 years (!!?) in my new Cayman S at Watkins Glen. I spent weeks fretting over being able to H&T smoothly. When we got out on the track my instructor had me pretty much leave it in 4th gear the whole time. The car has plenty of torque and I never came near the redline in 4th. We spent most of the time refining the line and getting used to being at speed. I'll work on H&T a little at a time off the track, but Pistol Pete is right- there are a lot more important things that you'll be working on in this DE than learning to H&T, so don't waste any sleep over it- enjoy. I spent most of my time in my Green group passing 911s, 928s and the occasional GT3! It's a great car.
I agree with the others. You'll be too busy recalibrating on your first track outings to be trying to learn something new. Just get the braking and downshifting done before turn in. I taught myself to heel and toe by practicing during normal street driving until it became second nature.
Mikeaman, I'm driven 4-days @ Watkins Glen in other cars but not in the Cayman S (yet).
Nice to know we have enough torque to climb the toe of the boot in 4th! That is a steep climb, I was downshifting to 3rd there in my G35 (similar HP/torque to the Cayman S) and it was still struggling a bit (a very heavy car compared to the Cayman).
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Pete
2008 Meteor Grey CS, PASM, Chrono, Sport Seats, Sport Shifter, Sport steering wheel, Xenon, Fire Extinguisher, Auto Climate and clear bra!
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Pete- that's the only place that I started doing some downshifting to 3rd. Could climb out in 4th, but 3rd was easier. In fact- one lap I passed a 911 climbing out and forgot to upshift, so I was in 3rd unti the revlimiter "reminded me" on the front straight.
Speaking of H&T, I'm assuming there are two reasons for doing it: 1.) To ease the load on the synchros, and 2.) to balance the car and not upset it when downshifting (match the speed in the lower gear with higher revs to the higher gear with lower revs). In a modern car like ours, I'm guessing it's mainly about #2- and that our synchros don't really care (unlike older cars or race transmissions with straight cut gears). Is that right?
Mikeman thats correct to a point. some synchros in the old transmissions, made it hard to shift into gear or grind if you shift fast, and sometimes it was necessary to double shift to avoid grinding. I found it to be easier to shift into certain gear with H&T if your synchros are beat up from abuse. Said all that.... if you become really good with H&T you can skip the clutch all together, and power shift allowing you to shift much faster. I never done that in my porshes but used to enjoy doing this in some of my older cars on the track and the street. I would suggest you learn H&T in an older car if you have one, and of course providing the peddals are arranged favorably. In some of the cars, the peddal placements make it so hard or impossible to do H&T smoothly. As others said, the place to learn H&T is not on the track as you are overwhelmed with so many other issues, and one can practice that on his or her own during everyday street driving. Good luck
Excellent suggestions mentioned.
You may also want to try to do it in bare feet while doing some street driving. You can really feel much easier what is going on, that way you can first "discover" the technique without the concentration reqd from the track and then move on from there.
Hi Guys, going to my first DE with a friend. I am new to manual transmissions, and shifting, with about 4000 miles experience so far.
So here is my situation. I a trying to learn heel-toe and have read a lot, see many videos and read all the stuff on here.
While everyone talks about how to heel-toe and rev-match, no one has mentioned any other way to do this. I am a beginner and will have to learn how to do this, but in the mean time, while I am, how do I down shift on the track without these methods?
Detailed answers would be appreciated.
What track? Look at some Youtube videos of Caymans driving on that track and watch the shifts.
If its Thunderhill, I can tell you exactly where you can shift and never have to do so while turning. This will cover you for quite a while. My best is a 2:14 with no heel-toe shifting. That will come later for me.
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My 2 cents (and my first post here) - I've raced cars with Skip Barber for about 8 years, so have a decent amount of shifting experience. Some important points about downshifting:
1) You need to be braking hard for it to work well. If not then your brake pedal is too far away from the gas pedal to blip the engine enough.
2) Practice blipping the throttle when you are at a stop. With the car in neutral, press the brake hard until it is even with the gas pedal. The left side of your foot should be on the brake pedal, and the right side should be over the gas pedal. Make sure this is the case. Then just roll your foot to the right a bit to push down on thegas pedal. You want the engine to rev up about 2000-3000 revs. Try to keep the same pressure on the brake as you do this.
3) Once the above step is mastered the sequence for downshifting is:
a) Brake
b) Put clutch in
c) Put car in neutral (while still braking)
d) Release the clutch
e) Blip throttle as explained above
f) put clutch in
g) go into lower gear
h) release clutch
Note that these steps all happen in about 1/2 a second. When getting it right, do it in a straight line, because if you get it wrong in a corner you could spin. Also if you mess up the blip, either little or too much, you can always let the clutch out slower to compensate as this is a road car.
I think you might find your instructor won't want you to H/T until you can consistently do it without missing. The purpose of H/T shifting is to get you into a lower gear as you go into a corner without upsetting the balance of the car. If you go into a corner fast and blow a H/T down shift you could be in real trouble. I H/T all the time on the street just to keep me smooth for the track. It becomes second nature after awhile. One added benefit of H/T all the time is less wear on your clutch.
Until 
on the front straight.
