Let's talk about this for a minute. What is the real point of tuners. Not trying to say anything, other than start a discussion about what they bring to the market.

I can't quite figure out why some would lay down some serious cash to obtain a tuner car. For the same money or less they can buy a faster better version directly from the manufacturer. I'm not talking Porsche only here, but rather tuners in general.

Would it be fair to call a GT3 a Porsche tuned Carrera. If so, why give the extra cash to a tuner to come up with a product that hasn't been developed or tested as well as a GT3.

Same can be said for other manufacturers. I guess you could argue that Mercedes doesn't make anything as powerful as a fully optioned Brabus, but even then, that is way more power than the car can put on the ground.

I'm only trying to start a discussion, so please don't take this as a knock against the tuner industry. I would be delighted to own a RUF tailored to my liking.

A good question. Here is what I think.

I have heard it said, if you want a fast car, then buy one. You want the fastest 911, buy a widowmaker (GT2), or whatever. However, here is the other side.

First, you can mod the car as you get more money. Not everyone has the money upfront to buy the "fastest" car they can on Day 1. Some people may take years and years, modifying what they can as money is available. It might take years but finally you may have something that you could not have on Day 1.

Second, there is individuality or, to use a term in the MINI world, "youification". That is, you can make it uniquely yours putting on the bits and pieces that YOU want. For example, you buy a GT3. So what? So didn't 5,000 others just like it (whatever the numbers may be). But, if you do it in bits and pieces, you can make it uniquely yours.

Third, and last, for some people its a hobby, especially if modding is DIY. The time and effort put into modding a car, including some tuner work, is just fun. It's a hobby, like stamp collecting except "faster" Nothing wrong with having a hobby.

So there are legitimate reasons for tuners to exist and they all play into the three reasons I have mentioned. I would bet the most significant one is the first, that is, you buy what you can afford and then modify it as you can afford it.

I think this is particulary true of the less expensive cars. Maybe you can buy the car for $30K and think sink $20K in tuner mods and have the fastest "widget" around. Not everyone can just drop $120K on a GT3 on a whim.

As to why drop the $$$ on parts not tested as OEM? That part is easy to answer as I saw it extensively in the MINI word. There you could buy a John Cooper Works (JCW) kits for more HP with full factory warranty or you could go aftermarket tuner. Why go aftermarket? Simple ... more bang for the money. Even though you don't get the factory warranty, you may get more HP for half the price. Money talks.

You make a good argument but I wasn't really thinking of gradual (step by step) tuning. I was thinking more in line with a finished Gamballa, Renntech (Mercedes) or Alpina type tuner cars. I agree that the personalization argument you mention is on the money. That being said, Porsche appears to have so many special factory custom option that you could make your car quite unique. If money is no object, the new Bentley is advertised to have 40,000 color options.

I get the point of tuning. I just can't help but think that I'd rather have some GT3 magic than a Gamballa Cayman.

I'm not arguing, only trying to keep the dialogue alive.

Uniqueness goes a long way, and a lot of people want performance but not a track car like the GT3. Sometimes people want specific things like aggressive looks, or interior options that are not available on factory cars, or the feeling of driving a turbocharged or supercharged car which is often also not available. So there are many reasons. Personally, if I had the money I would own such a tuner car.

I've seen tuned Caymans outrun 997S's on the track and even give GT3's a run for their money, all for a lot lower price point than buying either of those cars. If you can't get a Cayman from the factory as fast as you want it, you have to tune it. GT3? There are guys tuning those as well, no matter how much HP or performance a car has, someone will always want more... hence tuning.

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K-Man S

If your talking just buying the car outright Gemballa or Ruf, then I would agree with Kor here.

It still follows the line that you have a unique car. There will be few around like it. A GT3 is meant to be a track car. It is the basis for the cars raced. I think they come with R compounds. Who wants a DD where you have to buy a new set of tires every 4K miles?

OTH, if you go to a tuner shop you can still get a DD and be unique. The downside of aftermarket tuners is who is going to fix it when it breaks? The dealer?

The bottom line here is the enjoyment and pride in building and owning something unique.In this overpopulated,me-too,follow the leader world it allows us to stand out as individuals in an arena where we all spend a great deal of time-our cars.

There are probably as many reasons to have a "tuner" car as there are tuners. For myself, the opportunity to have substantive input into the look and specifications of the car are sometimes outweighed by the occasions I can sit down and have a beer with the owner of the company.

I think that the cayman is one the best examples of a situation where a tuner can greatly improve the overall picture. You have a car that is deliberately limited in horsepower and performance so as not to infringe on a higher priced sibling. One of the car publications described the cayman as a "detuned Supercar".Not my thing to do a total tuner modification- but I can certainly see why someone would go that route.

I agree with this concept. The downside though is, when it breaks, who fixes it, especially when you no where near the tuner. I guess that's the price you pay for uniqueness.

I'm actually curious how many people on the forum have an actual tuner Cayman. I know that many if not most have a modified car, but that's not what I'm asking. How many actually picked up a finished RUF, Gamballa, TechArt or any other brand. I'm a little surprised with some of the comments given the fact that recently almost everyone balked at the $150K red RUF. I'm getting mixed messages here, on one hand everyone is very excited about tuners, but few if any want to pay for it.

A good question. Maybe you should ask it in its own thread so more people