Tempted by doing a DIY de-snork as I think many owners already have on my Cayman S. For people that have done this, did you tell your Porsche dealer? Does this mod invalidate warranty?

More importantly for people that have done this can you feel much difference in "grunt"?

Did the de-snork...........Have not told the OPC (why shld I?)...........Will put the plate back on when it goes in for service.

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Oh, ethics maybe?

I have no problem with anyone modifying their car, but I personally have a big problem with intentionally deceiving the OPC (dealer ?) by reinstalling a part prior to service.

This is unquestionable fraud. You are stealing money from Porsche if your change caused a problem and you covered up this fact.

How would you react if one of your customers stole from you?

If you are going to make the change, then you must accept the consequence of you actions.

My apologies for being so judgmental, but this kind of stuff really chaps my tail. Just like guys who cheat at golf (or racing).

I see your point, about being un-ethical. But, considering the experiences I have had with dealers, they are NOT the most ethical bunch. Second, If a dealer or manufacturer knows you have made a modification to your car they will automatically blame it on the mod, whether or not it caused the failure. Here in the U.S. these un-ethical practices by dealers caused legislation to help put a stop to them blaiming the mod. The dealer is supposed to prove that the mod you did caused adverse effect on the part that failed. Also, they are not allowed to void your entire warrenty even if you caused failure of a particular part. But, they will try. I have no simpathy for dealers or manufactures. Just my 2 cents.

Ahh, the old two wrongs make a right

I have no problem modding my car with reversible items where both dealers and insurance company cannot detect!
Car dealers and insurance company have no ethics themselves! They never treat us properly when something goes wrong!

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Andy

BTW, fraudulent warranty claims do not hurt the dealer, they hurt Porsche proper.

And that in turn hurts us, the consumer. As Porsche spends more on fraudulent claims, the natural reaction is to implement tighter restrictions on all warranty claims. This will make the process for legitimate claims more difficult as the dealer will have to jump through higher hoops for every claim.

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2007 Cayman S My Gallery
Midnight Blue / Natural Brown Leather / Carrera Sport Wheels
Ordered 12/27/06 - Est. Build 02/28/07 - Completed 03/01/07 - VIN 03/07/07 - Loaded on "Eternal Ace" 03/13/07 - Arrived POB 03/26/07 - Home 03/31/07

One thing I forgot to mention is that there is a European law stating that as long as the replacement part (Does not matter which manufacturer) eg. k+n filter or Milltek exhaust meet or exceed the standard set by a certain organisation( Don't know which---TUV or BS9001?), customer will not invalidate their warranty! (Any lawyer in this forum?) This law is to ensure competition!
Of course this rule will not apply to desnork or ecu remapping! If something goes wrong, porsche have every right to invalidate your warranty!

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Andy

Krokodil,

Ethical issues arise when there is actual harm done (body, mind or car) as a result of direct action on my part.

I merely state that there is no point in letting the OPC know whether I do the de-snork or not.....Or for that matter if I apply sealant to the car, paint it pink, or write "kiss me Nancy" on the bonnet.......... As long as there is no harm done from the direct action on my part, I do not care two hoots.

The reason I would think of putting the air-restrictor plate back on when I take it to routine servicing is to avoid being blamed for something completely unrelated to the de-snorking mod.....
In case they do find something wrong which is reasonably attributable to the mod I did, the onus is on me to take the blame....And of course I would do it whole-heartedly...

I have had stories laced in horror told to me at bedtime regarding the Porsche dealerships ruthlessness, and the advantage they take of the naive common man who doesnt hold a degree in Motor Mehacnics, and thus cannot debate the theories they come up with, nor put in a counter-argument to state that the failure of a part was not directly contributed by the mod in question.....

You may only have heard glowing reports of the dealerships, and how they sprinkle their customers with gold dust....
But if you care, I could give you the addresses where your preaching of "Ethics" would come to much fruition indeed....

Having said that, I have to add not all dealerships deal in underhand techniques....But dont blame me for not trying to find out which one actually does....And as they say, Prevention is better than Cure.

I believe that people who do modifications to their car know the risk they are taking...and ultimately its their decision....

My advice to you is not to be judgemental of others without knowing or claryfying the reasons they take for their actions....

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Doc,

I disagree with your definition of ethics. A breach of ethics arises when there is intent to deceive. Replacement of a removed part is evidence of this intent. Whether there is any real related damage is not relevant to the argument. This is somewhat like attempted robbery; the police do not let you go just because you were not successful.

Also, without the car being presented in the condition in which the failure occurred, the mechanic is operating with incomplete data that may cause an inaccurate diagnosis of the root cause, potentially increasing labor expense, etc.

I have had my share of bad experiences with dealers, so no I do not believe that dealers sprinkle their customers with gold dust, but as I noted, the cost of fraudulent claims is not borne by the dealer, but by Porsche proper. In general, the dealer is more than happy to do a warranty repair as they are reimbursed by Porsche.

I applaud your efforts to seek out and reward those dealers that treat you fairly in your opinion, but I believe that we owe them the same respect in return. Part (not all) of the reason dealers behave the way they do is because customers are continually lying to them about how their cars broke. In general, I have found, that if you are straight up with the dealer they will do there best to take care of you, but the minute they think you are lying they will do everything they can to deny your claim because they do not want to get in trouble with Porsche.

As for your advice to me on not being judgmental, you are correct, but in this case I do not see how any reason or clarification justifies an intentional deception.

With all do respect.

Krokodil

PS - I really like the color of your Cayman

Krocodil,

I stand corrected with your definition of Ethics.
Its moral values that society consider to be right.

However, I would be attaching the plate back on with “no intent to deceive” the dealership, but a precaution against “not to be deceived”….The same reasons for which were penned in my previous post. ….

But I indeed would be deceiving them if per chance a discovered fault was attributed to the mod I made, and I did not disclose that fact…..

The mechanics are fully aware that many people mod their car, but later remove the mod after a period of evaluation if it doesn’t suit their taste; not because a fault arose…..
And if they happen to find a fault that is not readily explained, they usually ask the customers to previous mods done....So I find no reason to take a gunny sack along to the dealership for a routine service, packed with all the mods previously applied.
Please recall that this current debate arose with me going for a "routine service", and not with a fault.

You mention customers that lie to the dealership as to how their car broke….What about dealerships that “lie” to customers about what is broken, or needs to be replaced, or doing repairs that are not actually done but still charging customers for it.…..Now is that ethical?...

You also mention that “Part (not all) of the reason dealers behave the way they do is because customers are continually lying to them about how their cars broke.”…….

If you believe in the above I could justify that “Part (not all) of the reason that customers behave the way they do is because dealerships are continually lying to them about what is broken, and how it is not covered by the warranty, doing shoddy repairs and not being accountable to the work they did, or blatantly lying of the work performed and charging customers unduly.

So, fraud and unethical behaviour can be found on either side of the campus...Now the cause for one could easily be due to the effect of the other.

And no, I am not paranoid…..Just playing it safe against unscrupulous dealerships out there; few as they may be, but I wouldn’t want to be on the forecourt of one.

p.s.: thanx for the compliment abt the colour...Its a "paint-sealant "mod...Shld I disclose that to my dealer as well....Just kidding...

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