Hi all,

First off, my name is Bob, but you will see Olivia, my wife, as the userid. She hates my Boxster because I got the "bumpy option" -- M030, but we are still married.

I spent a lot of time on PPBB before I got my turn to buy my 1999 Boxster (12/16/08). Love the car and still have it. New engine for free at 15K and just hit 30K this week. For those of you who spent time on that board you may recall that some of us wanted a Boxster coupe. Well, it's here and I put a deposit down (on a Boxster Coupe that Porsche is calling a Cayman). So, I went to PPBB and found this board. I trust that this board will be as much fun and as informative. So, please don't get me wrong when I raise my first quetion: How can Porsche sell the coupe version of a car for thousands more than the ragtop?

911, AudiTT, M3, Z, you name it, the ragtop is ALWAYS a premium. OK, the Kman has 15 more hp. If we do 0-60s or quarter miles head to head in the BoxsterS vs. the Kman, my guess is that the Kman might win 6 out of 10 times. No real edge. Handling? The Kman will be heads up here due to structureal rigidity and stiffer susupension. So, what's my problem?

Well, I am concerned that the Kman is more of serious driver's car, but that most people buy sports cars for touring fun (or for status). Hey, the Miata is a great little car (and they kick my *** in autox because they are lighter), but who would buy a Miata Coupe for more than a Miata softop? I wonder what this car will resell for after the initial interest. Three years down the road with, say, 20K on a 2006 Kman and Boxster S comparable equipped, what is the average buying going to say, "hey I can get a convertible for less than your asking."

Have you seen the new 911 and 911S brochure? not only is the S faster, but it gets some very nice stuff standard: bi-zenon, 19" wheels, pasm, and I think a few other things. The Kman, from I can see, has nothing over the BoxsterS.

Do I want the car? YOU BET! Will I pay a premium for a coupe? When my salesman called me last week to tell me that I could order my Kman NOW for a November build and January deliver I did salivate a little. But, logic took hold and I told him that I wanted to see it in 3-D first. In reality, I may keep my Boxster until the initial interest wanes and see if Kmans can be bargained for, or I may just get a BoxsterS with bi-zenon, Bose, sport seats, and a few more options FOR THE SAME PRICE A CaymanS.

Sorry for the length, but it takes some time to make this case. Is it just me, or have others pondered this?

And, please don't shoot the messanger. It was never fun on PPBB when some one compared the Boxster with another fine car (they are all fun if you love cars!) only to get hammered.

Bob

Bob and Olivia, welcome!



What you have to keep in mind is that the Cayman S is not just a Boxster S with a hardtop. Even if it was, what's a hardtop run from Porsche these days? $3K?



The Cayman S has significant suspension changes vs. a Boxster S as well as new body panels from the windshield back, a larger engine and a modified tranny/shift setup.



All of these things cost money. Your example with the Audi or 350Z doesn't hold water because those cars started as coupes and the convertibles got the same or better engines. If the 350Z had a 3.7L and the 350Z convertible a 3.5 you might see the coupe cost more.



A couple of figures tossed about are 40% sharing between Cayman S and Boxster S, which if true means 60% different and that 60% is the additional cost. You even have little items like interior plastic pieces and carpeting, etc.



A better example might be a 997 S vs. a 997 Cab, the 997 S is more expensive because it has the bigger engine and other upgrades.. Do I wish the Cayman S cost less than a Boxster S? Sure, but that isn't going to happen.



As far as resale value goes I will go out on a ledge here and say right now that I think Caymans will hold their resale value better than Boxsters. We'll see what happens but that is by guess based on what other Porsche models are doing with respect to each other.

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K-Man S

K-man ,

Agreed, there are some differences between the BoxsterS and Kman, mostly from what I read in suspension and that is all good. I'd love to see Porsche do a side-by-side comparision of the two as they did in the Carrera brochure for the base model and the S. This won't happen because they are being marketed as two different cars, while somehow the Carrera's are all the same in some magical way.

As for the hardtop, I think that it's about an $8K premium for the Carrera. The Carrera ragtop comes with a hardtop which is an option for the Boxster at about $2.5K. The Carrera removable lid is larger, so give it a value of $3K and the ragtop actually costs the buyer an extra $5K.

Putting this all together, a BoxsterS is $5K less than a Kman with a $5K+ value ragtop. What in the Kman makes up for $10K? 0.2 liters more in the CarreraS is only worth the extra 10K becuase the CarreraS also comes with bi-xenon, PASM, 19" wheels, the sports stearing wheels and maybe a thing or two that I am missing.

Anyway, we and others can and certainly will debate this for a long time I'm sure. What Porsche has done as was predicted by others on PPBB years ago is to get themselves in an odd spot by keeping the Carrera, with the misplaced engine (slower on the track than the Kman with more hp), as their flagship car. How is it, I ask rhetorically, that a re-engine car is their flagship when 1) their super car at $450,000 is midengine (CarreraGT, how is this MID-ENGINE car a Carrera??!!) and 2) their formula 1 race cars are all mid-engine?

Just Bob (Olivia is only a ghost when it comes to my cars)

Porsche tried to kill the 911 in the late 70s and they found that that would be the end of the company. The 928 was not going to be able to replace the 911. Porsche is just like any other business requiring sales to operate. If the 911 is the Porsche standard/icon/flagship it's because the market has sustained it as such. The 'revolution' at Porsche in the early 90s (which begat the 986/996 and led to the demise of the air cooled 993) was not about its cars but about it manufacturing process which had to be modernized in order for Porsche to increaseprofitability. The 964 Porsche ofthe early 90s was expensive to make and was not selling well, especially in the US during the recession. It's no accident that the Boxster and 996 shared so many components. Porsche learned that from the Japanese. Porsche is so profitable today because they managed to retain their historically high end marketplace while decreasing the cost of manufacturing. If you look at Boxster pricing from 1997 through today the costs have hardly changed and the cars have increased in features and performance. Porsche could probably offer its cars (and certainly its options) for less money, but they understand the psychology of their customers better than their customers understand themselves. While there are certainly manydedicated enthusiasts, there are as many, if not more, wealthyindividuals who buy a Porsche for its status as an object of success and 'sportiness'. Their money is just as green to Porsche as yours or mine. The Cayman S is more expensive than the Boxster S for the same Porsche reasoning that the GT3 is more expensive than a 997 Cab and that the X51 option is$16,000. Thefeature you will pay most dearly for in a Porsche is horsepower.