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Northern California Racing Club DE Thunderhill 3/30
I'll be at this event next Sunday - couldn't get away for any of the coming midweek events.
I don't know much about Northern California Racing Club, but I'm planning to try various DE groups for comparison purposes. They do offer a newbie discount that makes your first outing with them very inexpensive. I hope to try NASA next.
If any other CC'ers will be there Sunday I hope to meet you!
I'll be at this event next Sunday - couldn't get away for any of the coming midweek events.
I don't know much about Northern California Racing Club, but I'm planning to try various DE groups for comparison purposes. They do offer a newbie discount that makes your first outing with them very inexpensive. I hope to try NASA next.
If any other CC'ers will be there Sunday I hope to meet you!
i will be there.
NCRC is far far far far far better than any NASA event. safer and more track time.
other good groups are golden gate lotus club, PCA-GGR (need to attend ground school, possibly the best group for porsches), speed venture, unlimited laps, track master.
PCA - Porsche Club Of America
The Porsche Club of America - http://www.pca.org
CaymanClub.Net members who are also PCA members should request access to the PCA Member only forum by filling in their PCA Member ID# into their profile and then requesting a group membership addition, both of which can be done in the User Control Panel (User CP)
__________________
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I can only compare this event to my only other DE event, which was with Hooked on Driving (also at Thunderhill).
Hooked on Driving provides much better classroom instruction than NCRC. Beyond basic safety items, HOD has classroom time after every session to talk about the proper line, early/late apexes, issues that came up during the track session, etc. etc. etc. NCRC classroom time provided safety information, and not much else. This is a significant advantage for HOD if you are a newbie.
HOD does, in fact, seem to attract more newbies. This means its novice track sessions were quite a bit slower than NCRC's novice sessions. A HOD novice session might be filled 30% with real newbies who are driving slowly, which makes for a frustrating session if you've got a little capability. In contrast, the NCRC novice session had just a few newbies, and plenty of faster intermediate drivers.
In HOD you will have a different instructor for each session. This has advantages and disadvantages. You'll get several different perspectives instead of just 1, and you won't get stuck for the entire day with an instructor who's not a good match for you for whatever reason. On the other hand there is no continuity from session to session. At NCRC you'll have the same instructor all day.
The NCRC novice session has many more point-by passing zones than the HOD novice session. This was really very helpful - it was great to be able to pass in so many different places.
NCRC provides a LOT of track time. I logged almost 2 hours yesterday, in 5 sessions. The afternoon sessions were 25 min instead of the 20 min sessions used by HOD. When you consider that for each session you will have 2 slow laps (warm-up and cool-down), then the extra 5 min in the middle significantly increases the number of hot laps per session. I found this very helpful. In the 20 min HOD sessions, so many times I was getting up to speed and learning things, just to have the session end before I was ready. At 25 min I was usually satisfied that I'd gotten enough out of a particular session.
In summary, both groups provided an excellent experience, and a safe friendly atmosphere. For your 1st outing I'd recommend HOD. As you get more capable and start getting frustrated by too many slow cars, give NCRC a try. Note that it is very easy to move up to more advanced groups in HOD, so don't read too much into these comments.
Caymans were well represented at the event - there were 4, including another active Clubber ("bob") who was VERY fast! My instructor was Andrew Bloch (spelling?), who also ran a stock CS. It was very helpful to ride with a skilled CS driver in his car, and to have a skilled CS driver as my instructor - we even had the same tires. Andrew was running 2:11-2:12 (over the hill) on street tires in a bone stock CS. The best I managed was 2:16.
As a special bonus I got to see mooty run in an all-out race with 15-20 other cars of various classes and types - maybe 1/2 were pure race cars. Mooty ran away and hid from all the street cars in his 996 GT3, and he beat all the race cars, too, except for a VERY serious 911. It was an incredible display of driving skill! Mooty ran 2:03's or so for 12 laps, and was disappointed that he was so slow (!!!).
Last edited by Fort Felker; 04-01-2008 at 06:46 AM.
Thank you for the insight into these two options. As someone who,
a) Has done track events in the distant past and
b) has set a goal to get onto the track this year in my boxster,
your analysis has been very helpful.
Of course I still haven't figured out which organization to run with, nor what date(s) I can acually get there
__________________ Jason
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I've run lots of NASA events in the past and they were always chaotic and dangerous. I would see multiple cars crash every weekend. Too many clowns in there with $500 Hondas who were willing to stuff it into the wall. With the races in the same weekend, it was just too much going on. Racers would drift into DEs to get more set up time. Then you'd get full race prep cars out there running on the ragged edge and blow motors all over the track, causing DE cars to find the nearest wall. Ask me how I know! On the plus side, there were things to look at when you weren't driving.
Things may have changed, (Haven't been to one in a couple of years,) but I don't want to go back. The last one I attended at the Lotus club is the way an intermediate level DE should be.
__________________ Nov 16, 2007 build:
'08 CS Midnight blue metallic
Black sport seats
Delete model designation
Fire extinguisher
Floor mats
Sport steering wheel
I can only compare this event to my only other DE event, which was with Hooked on Driving (also at Thunderhill).
Hooked on Driving provides much better classroom instruction than NCRC. Beyond basic safety items, HOD has classroom time after every session to talk about the proper line, early/late apexes, issues that came up during the track session, etc. etc. etc. NCRC classroom time provided safety information, and not much else. This is a significant advantage for HOD if you are a newbie.
HOD does, in fact, seem to attract more newbies. This means its novice track sessions were quite a bit slower than NCRC's novice sessions. A HOD novice session might be filled 30% with real newbies who are driving slowly, which makes for a frustrating session if you've got a little capability. In contrast, the NCRC novice session had just a few newbies, and plenty of faster intermediate drivers.
In HOD you will have a different instructor for each session. This has advantages and disadvantages. You'll get several different perspectives instead of just 1, and you won't get stuck for the entire day with an instructor who's not a good match for you for whatever reason. On the other hand there is no continuity from session to session. At NCRC you'll have the same instructor all day.
The NCRC novice session has many more point-by passing zones than the HOD novice session. This was really very helpful - it was great to be able to pass in so many different places.
NCRC provides a LOT of track time. I logged almost 2 hours yesterday, in 5 sessions. The afternoon sessions were 25 min instead of the 20 min sessions used by HOD. When you consider that for each session you will have 2 slow laps (warm-up and cool-down), then the extra 5 min in the middle significantly increases the number of hot laps per session. I found this very helpful. In the 20 min HOD sessions, so many times I was getting up to speed and learning things, just to have the session end before I was ready. At 25 min I was usually satisfied that I'd gotten enough out of a particular session.
In summary, both groups provided an excellent experience, and a safe friendly atmosphere. For your 1st outing I'd recommend HOD. As you get more capable and start getting frustrated by too many slow cars, give NCRC a try. Note that it is very easy to move up to more advanced groups in HOD, so don't read too much into these comments.
Caymans were well represented at the event - there were 4, including another active Clubber ("bob") who was VERY fast! My instructor was Andrew Bloch (spelling?), who also ran a stock CS. It was very helpful to ride with a skilled CS driver in his car, and to have a skilled CS driver as my instructor - we even had the same tires. Andrew was running 2:11-2:12 (over the hill) on street tires in a bone stock CS. The best I managed was 2:16.
As a special bonus I got to see Mooty run in an all-out race with 15-20 other cars of various classes and types - maybe 1/2 were pure race cars. Mooty ran away and hid from all the street cars in his 996 GT3, and he beat all the race cars, too, except for a VERY serious 911. It was an incredible display of driving skill! Mooty ran 2:03's or so for 12 laps, and was disappointed that he was so slow (!!!).
Did Andrew mention anything about an incident at Infineon? One of the HOD guys said he totaled his CS there.
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I've run lots of NASA events in the past and they were always chaotic and dangerous. I would see multiple cars crash every weekend. Too many clowns in there with $500 Hondas who were willing to stuff it into the wall. With the races in the same weekend, it was just too much going on. Racers would drift into DEs to get more set up time. Then you'd get full race prep cars out there running on the ragged edge and blow motors all over the track, causing DE cars to find the nearest wall. Ask me how I know! On the plus side, there were things to look at when you weren't driving.
Things may have changed, (Haven't been to one in a couple of years,) but I don't want to go back. The last one I attended at the Lotus club is the way an intermediate level DE should be.
The group I ran with yesterday was not NASA - it was Northern California Racing Club (NCRC). It seemed from your post that you thought I was commenting on NASA... At the NCRC event I saw no car-to-car contact, no crashes, and I only saw 1 spin (a CS driver on his 3rd outing who had earlier explained to me that he ran with PSM off so it wouldn't interfere with his driving! PSM frequently interfered with my driving, but it saved me from spinning twice!). There were no off-track excursions of consequence, and the only time the tow truck got called was a radical race car that broke down mid-track.
I have heard other comments similar to yours about NASA (see mooty's post above).
PSM - Porsche Stability Management
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If braking alone isn’t enough to correct the vehicle’s cornering line, PSM then calls on the Cayman’s engine management system, adjusting engine output as needed to help stabilize handling. PSM can also compensate in an instant for mid-corner changes in load resulting from deceleration or braking. When Sport mode is selected with the optional Sport Chrono Package, PSM’s threshold for intervention is raised, allowing for greater driver involvement. If you prefer driving without automatic PSM assistance, the system can be set to standby at any time. In this case, it will only intervene under heavy braking, where both front wheels exceed the ABS threshold.
For all of its technical ability, PSM goes virtually unnoticed in everyday driving situations, preserving the Cayman’s natural agility.
Last edited by Fort Felker; 04-01-2008 at 06:47 AM.
Did Andrew mention anything about an incident at Infineon? One of the HOD guys said he totaled his CS there.
He was driving a leased Black CS (maybe Basalt Black?) with a black interior that he said he had had for a couple of years. Does that describe the car that was supposed to be totaled? There was no apparent damage to the car, and it certainly turned some pretty fast laps. He did not bring the subject up. I probably wouldn't either, if I had a student!! LOL! I found him to be a good instructor. Not the best communicator I've had, but the fact that we were driving the same car counted for a lot.
Last edited by Fort Felker; 04-01-2008 at 06:52 AM.
andrew did NOT total his CS. btw, it's standard non metallic black. i know that for a fact. he may have had an incident in other cars but that's not to be discussed on public forum.
fort, you got lucky having andrew as your instructor. he taught me everything i know. he is also my favorite instructor. i dont know how he can be some come and talking so slowly while i drive. i scare myself to death while he calmly corrects my mistakes!!!
i would be more available to chit chat normally, but having to help my sister and also evaluate my time using hoosier and r888 with two different track configurations..... i was not only busy but have a very painful lower back now...ugh...
i expected to do 2:02 on R888 and 2:00 with hoosiers. but i only did a handful of 2:02 on hoosiers and 2:03 on R888. but my EXCUSE would be that this is my first outing to TH this year.... hopefully by year end i can get to 2:01 with R888.
plenty of CS out there and all did us proud.
with regard to NCRC vs HOD. you are right on.
HOD is more of a SCHOOL and more conservative, great when you are starting. but once you get faster, you will find there's a lot of traffic you have to fight through even in the fast group.
NCRC is more open track setting and in the fast group it's open passing everywhere so not much traffic to worry about. and NCRC has a lot more track time for sure. i did 210 miles sat and 180 miles sunday.
i had a lot of fun playing with a black C6 Z06 (not the one in the race, that's not a corvette, those are tube frame vettes). those Z06 blow by me on front straight like i had my hand brakes on.
__________________
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (one of the best clear film specialists)
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Until 
